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LFO Delay

LFO Delay
« on: January 05, 2018, 08:24:10 AM »
Beginner question:

As there is no knob for LFO delay, I'm trying to use the aux envelope to do the delayed start of the LFO.

But although I have it as a source and the amount of the LFO as the Destination, it doesn't work. No matter what I tweak, the LFO always starts immediately modulating it's source.

What am I doing wrong?

Re: LFO Delay
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2018, 09:29:22 AM »
Beginner question:

As there is no knob for LFO delay, I'm trying to use the aux envelope to do the delayed start of the LFO.

But although I have it as a source and the amount of the LFO as the Destination, it doesn't work. No matter what I tweak, the LFO always starts immediately modulating it's source.

What am I doing wrong?

If  you choose ENV3 as source and LFO1 AMNT as destination, that should control the LFO 1 amount.

What do you want the LFO to modulate ?
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 09:32:05 AM by AlainHubert »
Minimoog D (vintage), DSI OB6 (Desktop), Oberheim Matrix-6 (MIDI Controller), DSI REV2-16, Mac Mini Unibody 2010 (audacity).

Re: LFO Delay
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2018, 11:19:04 AM »
I tried to modulate the cutoff freq of the filter and also the pitch of the osc.

Re: LFO Delay
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2018, 11:44:24 AM »
Try this for the first tests, beginning with a basic program:

LFO1 Dest = Cutoff
LFO1 Freq = 90
LFO1 Amt = 0
Cutoff = 64
Env 3 Dest = LFO1 Amt
Env 3 Amount = 127
Env 3 Attack, Decay and Release = 0
Env 3 Sustain = 127
Env 3 Delay = 64

The modulation should start about 1 second after the key pressed.
DSI Prophet Rev2 | Waldorf Blofeld | Moog Mother 32 | Eurorack stuff

Re: LFO Delay
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2018, 12:14:22 PM »
Yes, that works.

Is it because not of the use of the modulation matrix? Why is that so?

Re: LFO Delay
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2018, 12:23:04 PM »
Same here:

LFO1 Dest = Cutoff
LFO1 Freq = 90
LFO1 Amt = 0
Cutoff = 64

Env 3 Attack, Decay and Release = 0
Env 3 Sustain = 127
Env 3 Delay = 64

Modulation:
Source = Env3
Amount = 127
Dest = LFO1 Amt

Make sure that Env 3 Sustain is not 0!
DSI Prophet Rev2 | Waldorf Blofeld | Moog Mother 32 | Eurorack stuff

Re: LFO Delay
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2018, 12:37:47 PM »
My mistake seams to be that I only  set the destinations per mod matrix and not with the dedicated destination knobs. Do they "different" routings/assingments?

Re: LFO Delay
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2018, 01:05:10 PM »
Well, Env3 is not only a parameter which can be used as source. It is an envelope which changes its value during the time and must be configured to do that. The modulation wheel for example is just one parameter which is set by moving the wheel to a defined position.

I have not seen any difference between assigning the LFO1 amount using the matrix or by the Env3 destination knob. But it is important that Env3 is configured to output a value greater than 0 and LFO1 Amt is set to 0, so the envelope can add its value and make the amount larger. In a basic program all Env3 parameters are 0 so it won't have any effect
DSI Prophet Rev2 | Waldorf Blofeld | Moog Mother 32 | Eurorack stuff

Re: LFO Delay
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2018, 01:45:02 PM »
Thanks! Strange, but it seams as if I can't realize it, only using the mod. matrix. I'll try again tomorrow...

Re: LFO Delay
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2018, 08:52:25 PM »
I just don't get it. My confusion is not about the behavior of the envelopes, but about the behavior of the both "Destination"-knobs (in the LFO- and the AUX ENV-section) vs. the "Mod Matrix". For example:

I set up 3 Mod.-slots:

1) Source: ModWheel / Amount: 127 / Destination: LFO1Amt

2) S: LFO1 / A: 0 / D: Osc1Freq

3) S: LFO1 / A: 0 / D: Cutoff

So, when I push the Modwheel, the LFO1 amount rises (that proves that the Mod Matrix generally "works"), BUT it is only effecting the destination I choose on the "Destination"-knob of the LFO section:

Destination-knob:
- turned to "off": nothing happens
- turned to "LFO1Freq": the pitch is effected
- turned to "Cutoff": the filter is effected
- turned to "X": "X" is effected

So, what I experience is, that - no matter how I set up my Mod.-slots - the LFOs (and the AUX ENV) are only efficting the one destination that is set with their both dedicated "Destination"-knobs - ignoring the destinations that are set in the Mod Matrix.

So it is not possible to set multiple destinations, (or defining a destination only with the Mod Matrix) for these both sources.

What am I overlooking?
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 09:13:29 PM by Kai-vD »

Re: LFO Delay
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2018, 09:36:47 PM »
I just don't get it. My confusion is not about the behavior of the envelopes, but about the behavior of the both "Destination"-knobs (in the LFO- and the AUX ENV-section) vs. the "Mod Matrix". For example:

I set up 3 Mod.-slots:

1) Source: ModWheel / Amount: 127 / Destination: LFO1Amt

2) S: LFO1 / A: 0 / D: Osc1Freq

3) S: LFO1 / A: 0 / D: Cutoff

So, when I push the Modwheel, the LFO1 amount rises (that proves that the Mod Matrix generally "works"), BUT it is only effecting the destination I choose on the "Destination"-knob of the LFO section:

Destination-knob:
- turned to "off": nothing happens
- turned to "LFO1Freq": the pitch is effected
- turned to "Cutoff": the filter is effected
- turned to "X": "X" is effected

So, what I experience is, that - no matter how I set up my Mod.-slots - the LFOs (and the AUX ENV) are only efficting the one destination that is set with their both dedicated "Destination"-knobs - ignoring the destinations that are set in the Mod Matrix.

So it is not possible to set multiple destinations, (or defining a destination only with the Mod Matrix) for these both sources.

What am I overlooking?

Hi. Here's how to have one LFO modulate more than one destination, with the modulation intensity controlled by the mod wheel, regardless of the destination set in the LFO section.

Set up mod slots as follows:

1) Source: ModWheel /Amount:127 / Destination: Mod3Amnt

2) S:ModWheel / A:127 / D:Mod4Amnt

3) S:LFO1 / A:0 / D:Osc1Freq

4) S:LFO1 / A:0 / D:Cutoff

And you can even add another destination, with the LFO1 destination knob (to noise for example), independent of the matrix.

The result will be that all those destinations, Osc1Freq, filter Cutoff, and Noise level, modulation levels from LFO1 will be controlled by the mod wheel.

Hope that helps ?

« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 10:04:59 PM by AlainHubert »
Minimoog D (vintage), DSI OB6 (Desktop), Oberheim Matrix-6 (MIDI Controller), DSI REV2-16, Mac Mini Unibody 2010 (audacity).

Re: LFO Delay
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2018, 09:51:44 PM »
Ahhh! That's the way the cookie crumbles! Thanks!

Re: LFO Delay
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2018, 10:08:39 PM »
Ahhh! That's the way the cookie crumbles! Thanks!

You're welcome.
There might be other ways to do it, perhaps ? But that's one way I've found that works. The drawback is that it takes a lot of mod slots... Luckily, there are 8 of them on the REV2  8)
Minimoog D (vintage), DSI OB6 (Desktop), Oberheim Matrix-6 (MIDI Controller), DSI REV2-16, Mac Mini Unibody 2010 (audacity).

Re: LFO Delay
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2018, 10:14:04 PM »
The key to accomplishing what you want is to set the ModWheel DEST in the matrix to (Mod1Amt), (Mod2Amt), etc...  That will allow the LFO to affect multiple destinations, with the ModWheel controlling the amount for each destination.

Try setting it using four mod slots:

The first two connect the LFO to your destinations, with 0 amount.

Mod Slot 1:
Source: LFO1
Amount: 0
Dest: Cutoff

Mod Slot 2:
Source: LFO1
Amount: 0
Dest: Ost1Freq

The next two slots connect ModWheel to the above Modulation Slots (with a specific amount that will be applied to each)

Mod Slot 3:
Source: ModWheel
Amount: 127  (how much the ModWheel effects cutoff)
Dest: Mod1Amt

Mod Slot 4: (or the built in ModWheel Slot)
Source: ModWheel
Amount: 16 (how much the ModWheel effects Osc1Freq)
Dest: Mod2Amt


Re: LFO Delay
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2018, 10:23:31 PM »
Thanks!

Re: LFO Delay
« Reply #15 on: January 05, 2018, 10:23:59 PM »
The key to accomplishing what you want is to set the ModWheel DEST in the matrix to (Mod1Amt), (Mod2Amt), etc...  That will allow the LFO to affect multiple destinations, with the ModWheel controlling the amount for each destination.

Try setting it using four mod slots:

The first two connect the LFO to your destinations, with 0 amount.

Mod Slot 1:
Source: LFO1
Amount: 0
Dest: Cutoff

Mod Slot 2:
Source: LFO1
Amount: 0
Dest: Ost1Freq

The next two slots connect ModWheel to the above Modulation Slots (with a specific amount that will be applied to each)

Mod Slot 3:
Source: ModWheel
Amount: 127  (how much the ModWheel effects cutoff)
Dest: Mod1Amt

Mod Slot 4: (or the built in ModWheel Slot)
Source: ModWheel
Amount: 16 (how much the ModWheel effects Osc1Freq)
Dest: Mod2Amt

Uh, isn't that basically what I wrote 45 minutes ago ?  ???  ;D ;)
I was hoping for maybe another simpler way ? Oh well...  Thanks anyway.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 10:27:54 PM by AlainHubert »
Minimoog D (vintage), DSI OB6 (Desktop), Oberheim Matrix-6 (MIDI Controller), DSI REV2-16, Mac Mini Unibody 2010 (audacity).

Re: LFO Delay
« Reply #16 on: January 05, 2018, 11:13:26 PM »
Uh, isn't that basically what I wrote 45 minutes ago ?  ???  ;D ;)
Yes, he was just a bit more detailed  ;)

Anyway, to come back to a sooner question:

Quote from: Kai-vD
So, what I experience is, that - no matter how I set up my Mod.-slots - the LFOs (and the AUX ENV) are only efficting the one destination that is set with their both dedicated "Destination"-knobs - ignoring the destinations that are set in the Mod Matrix.

I have assigned Osc1Freq to LFO 1 using Mod Slot 1, Cutoff to LFO 1 using Mod Slot 2 and Osc Mix to the destination of LFO 1 using its destination knob. I have two oscillators running, the first one based on C2 and the second one based on C5. Cutoff is at 85. I can now play with the amounts of all three modulations and hear all of them. So it is possible to use the dedicated destination of the LFO in combination with those of the matrix. See attached...
DSI Prophet Rev2 | Waldorf Blofeld | Moog Mother 32 | Eurorack stuff