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It's happened....Behringer....

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #20 on: December 13, 2017, 01:30:57 PM »
I'm happy to see Behringer reviving some of the old classics. But I have never been big on Behringer so my question is essentially this:  can anybody here speak to the build / sound quality of recent Behringer products?  specifically synths?


About 15 years ago, I was considering a Behringer mixer, and a sales rep at Sweetwater who I trusted (and still trust) warned me away from them due to build and sound quality. Since then I have had that bias toward Behringer -- I've associated them with lower quality products.  Has this changed?  It is certainly possible. Over the years, a companies QC can change drastically (just look at Ford).


Any opinions from Behringer owners here???  (and thanks)

Tried the Deep Mind in the store when it arrived and found it overly convoluted with a lot of menu diving. Build quality was okay, thing great but I mean Roland’s build quality stinks now and they charge an arm and leg.
Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2017, 01:33:58 PM »
I mean obviously inspiration has to come from somewhere. Brian May loved Rory Gallagher and used Vox AC30s because Rory turned him on to it. A lot of blues players go for strats, ES 335s because that’s what a lot of iconic blues players played. I think there is some merit in using a standard to find your own voice. For instance I got into synths because of John Carpenter and I tend to model a lot of my patches and set up after his but then I’m also using it as a starting point to finding my own voice.

I do agree though that the people demanding it aren’t willing to pay the cost of their desire.

Oh, I'm not arguing over inspiration. Nothing comes out of nowhere and that can also influence what instrument one picks. I highly doubt, though, that the likes of Brian May, Rory Gallagher, or David Gilmour obsessed over gear the way it's common on certain forums now. Most of the time, those players just picked what was available, and when they were young and didn't have much to spend, they bought used gear or whatever else was available. Practice, performance, songwriting and achieving certain sonic results were the things at the center of attention, not a somewhat fetishized instrument or brand itself. In some cases, musicians from that generation are also bewildered by the current interest in vintage gear. John Carpenter, who's mainly playing a Kronos these days, is probably one of them.

Oh yeah Carpenter mostly uses Logic now. He said he’s a lazy keyboard player. Has no idea how to program or what any of the knobs do. “Push a key or button. I can do that.”

But I’m not interested his his opinion, only his music and movies.

Right.  In spite of his famous repertoire, I don't think he offers us an ideal in musicianship, composing, or sound design.

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #22 on: December 13, 2017, 01:41:53 PM »
Paul, the problem is, even while you allow for a degree of integrity among those of us who like those old instruments, you quickly change and castigate the general movement that favors such instruments.  Again, could there be more to it than you presently appreciate, more than just "fan culture"?  Could there possibly be many of us who would like to contribute to "synth culture" by making music on what are unfortunately called "retro" synthesizers?  I honestly don't know, because - thanks be to God - I don't surround myself with synth forums and synth culture.  I simply make music with the instruments I've got, and, aside from this forum, that's the end of it.

I should maybe point out that I use the term "retro" in a rather descriptive sense, not in a derogatory sense. So it's rather based on observation, not on the opinion that "retro" in itself is bad. And I don't only allow for a degree of integrity among those who like old instruments. Neither do I castigate the use of old instruments. Questioning the integrity of a musician only because he or she uses an old instrument would be quite absurd and arrogant. The only thing I criticized was what I referred to as a sheer consumerist interest in those instruments not based on what these instruments can actually do, but whoever used to play them on records that are perceived to be significant now for certain genres. So I was rather talking about praising retro stuff for the sake of retro in the attempt to be like XYZ because it's currently considered hip. I was not criticizing the appreciation of a couple of old synthesizers for reasons that make them a good instrument to some. The latter is not driven by a consumerist approach, but by the search for an instrument that should guarantee maximum expression based on individual needs and preferences.

And yes, I was more or less referring to what usually happens in certain synth forum discourses. The latter is related to the main topic here. Because let's not forget that Behringer catered to the sheer consumer instincts by creating accounts in almost all big internet forums in order to do some market research and create polls.

Even if GS is the largest online synth forum, don't judge the synth world through its blood-shot eyes.  Perhaps we're approaching the topic of the problems with synth forums themselves.  Like social media, they give a very misleading picture of reality.

I completely agree. And hopefully the rest will just make music.
Ableton Live 9 Suite & Push 2 (macOS) | Arturia BeatStep Pro | DSI Pro 2 | KMI QuNexus | Korg Volca Beats | Moog MF-104M Analog Delay | Moog Minitaur | Moog Model 15 App | Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition | Sequential Prophet-6

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #23 on: December 13, 2017, 01:43:10 PM »
I mean obviously inspiration has to come from somewhere. Brian May loved Rory Gallagher and used Vox AC30s because Rory turned him on to it. A lot of blues players go for strats, ES 335s because that’s what a lot of iconic blues players played. I think there is some merit in using a standard to find your own voice. For instance I got into synths because of John Carpenter and I tend to model a lot of my patches and set up after his but then I’m also using it as a starting point to finding my own voice.

I do agree though that the people demanding it aren’t willing to pay the cost of their desire.

Oh, I'm not arguing over inspiration. Nothing comes out of nowhere and that can also influence what instrument one picks. I highly doubt, though, that the likes of Brian May, Rory Gallagher, or David Gilmour obsessed over gear the way it's common on certain forums now. Most of the time, those players just picked what was available, and when they were young and didn't have much to spend, they bought used gear or whatever else was available. Practice, performance, songwriting and achieving certain sonic results were the things at the center of attention, not a somewhat fetishized instrument or brand itself. In some cases, musicians from that generation are also bewildered by the current interest in vintage gear. John Carpenter, who's mainly playing a Kronos these days, is probably one of them.

Oh yeah Carpenter mostly uses Logic now. He said he’s a lazy keyboard player. Has no idea how to program or what any of the knobs do. “Push a key or button. I can do that.”

But I’m not interested his his opinion, only his music and movies.

Right.  In spite of his famous repertoire, I don't think he offers us an ideal in musicianship, composing, or sound design.

I disagree. His compositions are very simple and repetitive but highly catchy and memorable. Kids are playing the Halloween theme like it’s the new chopsticks. Simple doesn’t mean bad..look at Johnny Cash. Can the same be said for other synth based performers? On one hand you have beautiful soundscape artists that tend to become indistinguishable after a while and the other side you have the Wakeman and Emerson fans playing a million miles an hour up and down the keybed but you can’t remeber anything they’ve played once it’s over. With Carpenter, probably because of the musics repetitiveness you walk down the street whistling the theme for Assault On Precinct 13 or soon as you hear the 10 note riff on the Black Keys you automatically go “Halloween”. Can’t really do that with Vince DiCola. Lol
Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #24 on: December 13, 2017, 01:47:58 PM »
If it's of any help, I came across this video by a guy who repairs Moog synthesizers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pRiUSf_QFw

This is actually an important video, as it shows you immediately why the Behringer D is not a Minimoog. No matter how identical both sound when compared to each other: The Minimoog was build as an instrument, the Behringer as a sound module. Perfomance concerns on one side (designing a portable and easy to adjust instrument), consumerist concerns on the other (cloning the same instrument for as cheap as possible).
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 01:51:03 PM by Paul Dither »
Ableton Live 9 Suite & Push 2 (macOS) | Arturia BeatStep Pro | DSI Pro 2 | KMI QuNexus | Korg Volca Beats | Moog MF-104M Analog Delay | Moog Minitaur | Moog Model 15 App | Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition | Sequential Prophet-6

Razmo

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Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #25 on: December 13, 2017, 01:53:14 PM »
Cool stuff they're making.... but unfortunately nothing that tickle my GAS... still waiting for that DSI sampler/granular synth...

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #26 on: December 13, 2017, 02:01:14 PM »
If it's of any help, I came across this video by a guy who repairs Moog synthesizers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pRiUSf_QFw

This is actually an important video, as it shows you immediately why the Behringer D is not a Minimoog. No matter how identical both sound when compared to each other: The Minimoog was build as an instrument, the Behringer as a sound module. Perfomance concerns on one side (designing a portable and easy to adjust instrument), consumerist concerns on the other (cloning the same instrument for as cheap as possible).

Sure.  But he gives his views on sound and build quality, both inside and out.  I believe this is what Shaw was after.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 02:07:50 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Shaw

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Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2017, 02:02:25 PM »
If it's of any help, I came across this video by a guy who repairs Moog synthesizers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pRiUSf_QFw

This is actually an important video, as it shows you immediately why the Behringer D is not a Minimoog. No matter how identical both sound when compared to each other: The Minimoog was build as an instrument, the Behringer as a sound module. Perfomance concerns on one side (designing a portable and easy to adjust instrument), consumerist concerns on the other (cloning the same instrument for as cheap as possible).

Sure.  But he gives his views on build quality, both inside and out.  I believe this is what Shaw was after.
Indeed, Thanks!  Still watching video now.
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #28 on: December 13, 2017, 02:04:12 PM »
Cool stuff they're making.... but unfortunately nothing that tickle my GAS... still waiting for that DSI sampler/granular synth...

Hell I’m still waiting for better midi implementation and sequencer functionality from DSI never mind a new synth. Lol
Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #29 on: December 13, 2017, 02:06:30 PM »
If it's of any help, I came across this video by a guy who repairs Moog synthesizers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pRiUSf_QFw

This is actually an important video, as it shows you immediately why the Behringer D is not a Minimoog. No matter how identical both sound when compared to each other: The Minimoog was build as an instrument, the Behringer as a sound module. Perfomance concerns on one side (designing a portable and easy to adjust instrument), consumerist concerns on the other (cloning the same instrument for as cheap as possible).

Sure.  But he gives his views on sound and build quality, both inside and out.  I believe this is what Shaw was after.

I know. The comparison just illustrates (even if not willfully) aspects of what I was talking about before.
Ableton Live 9 Suite & Push 2 (macOS) | Arturia BeatStep Pro | DSI Pro 2 | KMI QuNexus | Korg Volca Beats | Moog MF-104M Analog Delay | Moog Minitaur | Moog Model 15 App | Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition | Sequential Prophet-6

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #30 on: December 13, 2017, 02:09:56 PM »
For what it's worth: B*word has taken down all the links.
Ableton Live 9 Suite & Push 2 (macOS) | Arturia BeatStep Pro | DSI Pro 2 | KMI QuNexus | Korg Volca Beats | Moog MF-104M Analog Delay | Moog Minitaur | Moog Model 15 App | Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition | Sequential Prophet-6

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #31 on: December 13, 2017, 02:10:48 PM »
You're right, in that the Behringer Minimoog module is not a performance-oriented instrument.  Of course, it would be fine as an add-on to another instrument, as in stereo Minimoog!

"B-word?"  Paul, I'm starting to suspect that you really dislike this Behringer fellow.  ;D

Shaw

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Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #32 on: December 13, 2017, 02:14:52 PM »
You're right, in that the Behringer Minimoog module is not a performance-oriented instrument.  Of course, it would be fine as an add-on to another instrument, as in stereo Minimoog!

"B-word?"  Paul, I'm starting to suspect that you really dislike this Behringer fellow.  ;D
Or a B*word Model D coming into the Ext. In of my Pro 2.   That would definitely be, as Paul alludes, Bitchin'!
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #33 on: December 13, 2017, 02:21:53 PM »
Or a B*word Model D coming into the Ext. In of my Pro 2.

Yikes!  That would be a killer-combination.  And while you're at it, why not throw in an ARP Odyssey as well?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 02:25:19 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #34 on: December 13, 2017, 02:25:16 PM »
"B-word?"  Paul, I'm starting to suspect that you really dislike this Behringer fellow.  ;D

What? Me?  ;D
Ableton Live 9 Suite & Push 2 (macOS) | Arturia BeatStep Pro | DSI Pro 2 | KMI QuNexus | Korg Volca Beats | Moog MF-104M Analog Delay | Moog Minitaur | Moog Model 15 App | Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition | Sequential Prophet-6

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #35 on: December 13, 2017, 02:25:34 PM »
You're right, in that the Behringer Minimoog module is not a performance-oriented instrument.  Of course, it would be fine as an add-on to another instrument, as in stereo Minimoog!

"B-word?"  Paul, I'm starting to suspect that you really dislike this Behringer fellow.  ;D
Or a B*word Model D coming into the Ext. In of my Pro 2.   That would definitely be, as Paul alludes, Bitchin'!

I need a valium now.
Ableton Live 9 Suite & Push 2 (macOS) | Arturia BeatStep Pro | DSI Pro 2 | KMI QuNexus | Korg Volca Beats | Moog MF-104M Analog Delay | Moog Minitaur | Moog Model 15 App | Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition | Sequential Prophet-6

Shaw

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Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #36 on: December 13, 2017, 02:56:38 PM »
Or a B*word Model D coming into the Ext. In of my Pro 2.

Yikes!  That would be a killer-combination.  And while you're at it, why not throw in an ARP Odyssey as well?
Only 1 audio in... otherwise....
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #37 on: December 13, 2017, 03:02:53 PM »
"B-word?"  Paul, I'm starting to suspect that you really dislike this Behringer fellow.  ;D

Well, I guess I have to take some responsibility regarding that term:
https://twitter.com/dslsynth/status/895975827770408960

Do read all of the conversation and do check out who the other person is.
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #38 on: December 13, 2017, 03:05:30 PM »
Or a B*word Model D coming into the Ext. In of my Pro 2.

Yikes!  That would be a killer-combination.  And while you're at it, why not throw in an ARP Odyssey as well?
Only 1 audio in... otherwise....

I was thinking rather of MIDI.

Shaw

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Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #39 on: December 13, 2017, 03:13:06 PM »
Or a B*word Model D coming into the Ext. In of my Pro 2.

Yikes!  That would be a killer-combination.  And while you're at it, why not throw in an ARP Odyssey as well?
Only 1 audio in... otherwise....

I was thinking rather of MIDI.
You’re trying to sell me one of those B-word mixers from the late 90s....   :)
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa