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It's happened....Behringer....

Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2017, 08:49:23 AM »
Some one had to do it.  There have been such cries for the ARP 2600 that some one finally took the opportunity.  I presume these are all full-sized instruments. 

I owned a CAT SRM many years ago.  It was a fabulous instrument - sort of a thicker fatter version of the ARP Odyssey.  I've often wished some one would bring it back.  Behringer certainly has an ear to the ground.  If for nothing else, I'll congratulate them for that.

Is it certain these instruments will be produced, or is this just a rumor?
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 08:55:08 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2017, 09:16:41 AM »

Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2017, 09:44:33 AM »
Some one had to do it.  There have been such cries for the ARP 2600 that some one finally took the opportunity.  I presume these are all full-sized instruments. 

I owned a CAT SRM many years ago.  It was a fabulous instrument - sort of a thicker fatter version of the ARP Odyssey.  I've often wished some one would bring it back.  Behringer certainly has an ear to the ground.  If for nothing else, I'll congratulate them for that.

Is it certain these instruments will be produced, or is this just a rumor?

Not sure. What shocks me is that a lot of these are being assembled in the UK and Germany.
Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2017, 09:52:04 AM »


Heh heh.  It's all tumbleweed to you, Paul.  I know you don't care for these instruments, nor for Behringer.  But it was only a matter of time before someone snatched up the 2600 idea.  I've seen such a re-issue desired and discussed online perhaps more than any other vintage synthesizer.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 10:15:02 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2017, 10:10:27 AM »
You know my thoughts are. If there is a demand for a 2600 and nothing is being done to satisfy that demand Behringer has every right to capitalize on that market. I would much rather them focus on their own designs but still...not going to argue against a full sized 2600 sitting in my studio that has the name Behringer instead of ARP on it. If Korg wants to be lazy, screw em.

Now all that they need to do is a Jupiter 8 clone and embarrass Roland. The Behringer Saturn-8.
Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2017, 10:44:02 AM »
If I could somewhat simplify matters for a moment.  There are two types of synthesists: those who want many new features, and those who want primarily the old fundamental features.  The discussions on this forum fall almost exclusively into the first group.  Everybody seems to want the latest and greatest features, things brilliantly original, bold, and ground-breaking.  Hence, each time DSI releases a new synthesizer, as surely as the sun will set, there will appear on this forum in the new instrument's section a "New Features" thread.  New, new, new; more, more, more.  People will suggest, request, or even demand that DSI add new features to the instrument as it provides OS updates.  Some times it sounds as if the instrument - in its released form - is barely playable.

A very few of us fall into the second category.  Rather than many new features, we want primarily those rock-solid essential features of a synthesizer that suggest vintage instruments, together with a pure raw analog tone.  It seems as if we're considered indifferent to the further development of the synthesizer as a do-everything sort of electronic gadget.  But that isn't it at all.  Rather, we happen to have such a strong liking for the synthesizer as a musical instrument that we're actually annoyed by the constant demands for new features.  As if the synthesizer were crippled in its current state and needed to be made fit at last for use! 

Whatever may be the authenticity of the above announcement, I would love to see such instruments as the 2600, CAT, and MS-20 in full size once more available.  Not because they're retro, vintage, or provide a walk down memory lane, but entirely because they're excellent synthesizers that are strong in the fundamentals of synthesis, period.  There's nothing more to it than that; it's an entirely musical preference.  There's a pleasure in working with a relatively simple instrument that doesn't tempt you to wander off into unnecessarily complex sound design territory, that doesn't distract you with an abundance of features. 

Sure, it can be thrilling to sit at a Prophet 12, where it seems you could create any sound you could imagine, and many you could not.  But there's an equally gratifying experience in sitting at a synthesizer that provides just the basics, and, therefore, a minimum of distractions from the time-consuming work of producing beautiful music.  So, I'm glad someone has finally decided to re-issue these classic synthesizers and spare those of us interested the many headaches of buying and maintaining used instruments.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 11:23:13 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #8 on: December 13, 2017, 11:21:26 AM »
Heh heh.  It's all tumbleweed to you, Paul.  I know you don't care for these instruments, nor for Behringer.  But it was only a matter of time before someone snatched up the 2600 idea.  I've seen such a re-issue desired and discussed online perhaps more than any other vintage synthesizer.

That's not fully true. I do like the sounds of an ARP 2600. What I don't care about is the king of vaporware and the questionable business tactics of this corporate troll. That's one thing. The other thing is that I do find this whole retro wave slightly absurd in most places, albeit it may be regarded as a natural progression from synthesizers having reached the same status as a Fender or Gibson guitar. I don't mind retro instruments per se and obviously not from a historical perspective, I'm just not interested in the consumerist attitude the whole retro market caters to because XYZ used to use exactly the same synth on records A, B, and C. That is purely fan culture, but no synthesist culture. It's where certain brands and fashions become more important than what these instruments enable the player to do in the first place. That's pretty much all I don't care about. And this is pretty much unrelated to older synths themselves.

If I could somewhat simplify matters for a moment.  There are two types of synthesists: those who want many new features, and those who want primarily the old fundamental features.  The discussions on this forum largely fall into the first group.  Everybody seems to want the latest and greatest features, things brilliantly original, bold, and ground-breaking.  Hence, each time DSI releases a new synthesizer, as surely as the sun will set, there will appear on this forum in the new instrument's section a "New Features" thread.  New, new, new; more, more, more.  People will suggest, request, or even demand that DSI add new features to the instrument as it provides OS updates.  Some times it sounds as if the instrument - as is - is barely playable.

A few of us, perhaps, fall into the second category.  Rather than new and more features, we want primarily those rock-solid essential features of a synthesizer that suggest vintage instruments, together with a pure raw analog tone.  I suppose we're considered retro and indifferent to the further development of the synthesizer as a do-everything sort of electronic gadget.  But that isn't it at all.  Rather, we happen to have such a strong liking for the synthesizer as a musical instrument that we're annoyed by all the hype about new features.  As if the synthesizer were crippled in its current state and needed to be made fit for use!

I do agree with that in principle. I personally have no preference that runs along the lines of retro and innovation. I'm neither interested in retro for the sake of retro nor in innovation for the sake of innovation. In the end, I'd like a device that can be interacted with like an instrument, which can include any type of synthesis, as long as it can still be operated without having to read the manual each time one likes to change a parameter. So ideally, it's about sound and featurs and a well thought out interface design for me. "More, more, more" or "can do it all" instruments will most likely never make it to the latter category - at least not in my experience.

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #9 on: December 13, 2017, 11:34:03 AM »
Some one had to do it.  There have been such cries for the ARP 2600 that some one finally took the opportunity.  I presume these are all full-sized instruments. 

I owned a CAT SRM many years ago.  It was a fabulous instrument - sort of a thicker fatter version of the ARP Odyssey.  I've often wished some one would bring it back.  Behringer certainly has an ear to the ground.  If for nothing else, I'll congratulate them for that.

Is it certain these instruments will be produced, or is this just a rumor?

Not sure. What shocks me is that a lot of these are being assembled in the UK and Germany.

Manufacture of the boards in China, with subsequent assembly in EU, keeps costs down (lower tariffs)Ėthat seems to be the biggest complaint regarding the pricing (not yet official) for the Model "B".
Sequential / DSI / Pioneer stuff: OB-6 Desktop, Prophet 12 Desktop, Mono Evolver Keyboard, Pro 2, TORAIZ AS-1, Prophet-600 Gligli, Prophet 2000

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #10 on: December 13, 2017, 11:43:54 AM »
To be fair a lot of the "Feature requests" are for things that are almost mind boggling why they aren't there in the first place. Better midi implementation, better sequencer functionality that other synths have had and currently have. The reason? Dave is a creature of habit and is hesitant to adopt them. Well that's fine, but that also makes the requests that much more warranted. It's not a case of the manufacturer not being able to do it but rather a case of the manufacturer simply not wanting to do it.

Eventually that only goes so far (especially at the price points being asked) until people start looking for alternatives....ask Gibson.
Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #11 on: December 13, 2017, 11:47:13 AM »
Paul, that's a rather harsh judgment, and it presumes an awful lot about those of us who would like such instruments.  I believe you said you had always wanted a Prophet 5, and so, a Prophet 6 would be the next best thing.  Good for you.  But I'm sure your reasoning went a bit deeper than that.  Likewise

I personally loathe being placed again and again in a category with devotees of this rock keyboardist or that.  To put it lightly, if there's one group of persons I don't admire, it's certainly rock musicians.  So, please don't presume that re-issued instruments concern a desire to look or sound like some one else.  It may concern, instead, a negative feeling towards modern instruments, which are more complicated than many of us prefer.  There's more to this issue than such pejorative terms as "retro," "vintage," and "old school" allow.  Those terms are used to throw a group of us into a lunatic bin, and it's due to an unwillingness to take seriously our views.

I think there's a lot of merit in what you are saying but I also think a lot of it has to do with instruments from the past somehow having more functionality and features than modern gear but not having the reliability of a modern instrument. The issue I take from the "retro" movement is we aren't expanding on or bettering these things we are making them either exactly how they were or less than how they were.
Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #12 on: December 13, 2017, 11:51:26 AM »
I deleted that post because I don't want to argue over this, as I would have in the past.  Make music with the instruments of your choice - old or new, vintage or contemporary.  There's no need to justify to others such a decision.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 12:02:25 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #13 on: December 13, 2017, 12:09:28 PM »
Paul, your first paragraph was a rather harsh judgment, and it presumes an awful lot about those of us who would like such instruments.  I believe you said you had always wanted a Prophet 5, and so, a Prophet 6 would be the next best thing.  Good for you.  But I'm sure your reasoning went a bit deeper than that.  Likewise.

I personally loathe being placed again and again in a category with devotees of this rock keyboardist or that.  To put it lightly, if there's one group of persons I don't admire, it's certainly rock musicians.  So, please don't presume that re-issued instruments concern a desire to look or sound like some one else.  It may concern, instead, a negative feeling towards modern instruments, which are more complicated than many of us prefer. 

There's more to this issue than such pejorative terms as "retro," "vintage," and "old school" allow.  Those terms are used to throw a group of us into a lunatic bin, and it's due to an unwillingness to take seriously our views.

To clarify: I didn't mean to be harsh towards musicians that want a simple, stable, and good sounding instrument, no matter whether it was first released in 1971 or in 2017. What I was writing about was the sheer consumerist interest in synths (or any instrument for that matter), most notably represented by an infamous and somewhat appropriately named forum (GS). And how this consumerist interest is more related to fan or retro culture than to idiosyncratic musical goals or the options a synthesizer provides you with in terms of the authorization of sound. To me this whole B*word phenomenon is just a manufacturer's equivalent of the whole Gearslutz forum, its logical outcome it you will. And this business is mainly about buying things that make you comfortable because of the nice memories you associate with them (all things retro) for the lowest possible price the masses are willing to pay. That's all. I didn't mean to put you in particular into that category, which would seem absurd to me.

So again, what I mean is: "I wanna sound like Vangelis!" - "What synths did Vangelis use?" - "Why can't company XYZ just build a reissue?" - "But the reissue needs to be cheap, I'm not willing to pay Ebay prices that are higher than the mortgage left to pay." - "But it needs to have wood sides!" - "Wood sides make it more analog!" - "Wood sides are almost as good as a third VCO!" - "But it needs to be the best wood for the lowest possible price! After all, we're so wonderfully cynic about how production works." - "If one can build a Minimoog clone for 10% of the price, I wanna CS-80 for $1,500. That's what I'm willing to pay!" - "Then I can sound just like Vangelis and die peacefully." - "Then we can all sound like Vangelis!" - "Amen!" - Curtain closes -

And I don't see how any of that is related to being genuinely interested in synthesis.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 12:19:48 PM by Paul Dither »

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #14 on: December 13, 2017, 01:01:04 PM »
Paul, your first paragraph was a rather harsh judgment, and it presumes an awful lot about those of us who would like such instruments.  I believe you said you had always wanted a Prophet 5, and so, a Prophet 6 would be the next best thing.  Good for you.  But I'm sure your reasoning went a bit deeper than that.  Likewise.

I personally loathe being placed again and again in a category with devotees of this rock keyboardist or that.  To put it lightly, if there's one group of persons I don't admire, it's certainly rock musicians.  So, please don't presume that re-issued instruments concern a desire to look or sound like some one else.  It may concern, instead, a negative feeling towards modern instruments, which are more complicated than many of us prefer. 

There's more to this issue than such pejorative terms as "retro," "vintage," and "old school" allow.  Those terms are used to throw a group of us into a lunatic bin, and it's due to an unwillingness to take seriously our views.

To clarify: I didn't mean to be harsh towards musicians that want a simple, stable, and good sounding instrument, no matter whether it was first released in 1971 or in 2017. What I was writing about was the sheer consumerist interest in synths (or any instrument for that matter), most notably represented by an infamous and somewhat appropriately named forum (GS). And how this consumerist interest is more related to fan or retro culture than to idiosyncratic musical goals or the options a synthesizer provides you with in terms of the authorization of sound. To me this whole B*word phenomenon is just a manufacturer's equivalent of the whole Gearslutz forum, its logical outcome it you will. And this business is mainly about buying things that make you comfortable because of the nice memories you associate with them (all things retro) for the lowest possible price the masses are willing to pay. That's all. I didn't mean to put you in particular into that category, which would seem absurd to me.

So again, what I mean is: "I wanna sound like Vangelis!" - "What synths did Vangelis use?" - "Why can't company XYZ just build a reissue?" - "But the reissue needs to be cheap, I'm not willing to pay Ebay prices that are higher than the mortgage left to pay." - "But it needs to have wood sides!" - "Wood sides make it more analog!" - "Wood sides are almost as good as a third VCO!" - "But it needs to be the best wood for the lowest possible price! After all, we're so wonderfully cynic about how production works." - "If one can build a Minimoog clone for 10% of the price, I wanna CS-80 for $1,500. That's what I'm willing to pay!" - "Then I can sound just like Vangelis and die peacefully." - "Then we can all sound like Vangelis!" - "Amen!" - Curtain closes -

And I don't see how any of that is related to being genuinely interested in synthesis.

I mean obviously inspiration has to come from somewhere. Brian May loved Rory Gallagher and used Vox AC30s because Rory turned him on to it. A lot of blues players go for strats, ES 335s because thatís what a lot of iconic blues players played. I think there is some merit in using a standard to find your own voice. For instance I got into synths because of John Carpenter and I tend to model a lot of my patches and set up after his but then Iím also using it as a starting point to finding my own voice.

I do agree though that the people demanding it arenít willing to pay the cost of their desire.
Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #15 on: December 13, 2017, 01:01:42 PM »
Paul, the problem is, even while you allow for a degree of integrity among those of us who like those old instruments, you quickly change and castigate the general movement that favors such instruments.  Again, there could be more to it than you presently appreciate, more than just "fan culture."  For all we know, there could be many of us who would like to contribute to "synth culture" by making music on what are unfortunately called "retro" synthesizers.  I honestly don't know, because - thanks be to God - I don't surround myself with synth forums and synth culture.  I simply make music with the instruments I've got, and, aside from this forum, that's the end of it. 

There's much to be said for limiting one's exposure to the Internet's nearly endless universe of comments and opinions on everything under the sun.  There's a lot of filth and stupidity that tends to gain a respectable and even an authoritative air when published online.

As for the Gearslutz forum, nothing says it better than the name itself.  It was well chosen.  Life principle number one: avoid sluts. 

Even if GS is the largest online synth forum, don't view the synth world through its blood-shot eyes.  Perhaps we're approaching the topic of the problems with synth forums in general.  Like social media, they often give a misleading picture of reality, as interpreted through the opinions of a limited number of vocal and often belligerent individuals.  It's better to keep your head down and focus on your own work, rather than daily sift through all of that rubbish and allow it to influence your own thoughts.
« Last Edit: December 13, 2017, 01:27:05 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #16 on: December 13, 2017, 01:11:08 PM »
I mean obviously inspiration has to come from somewhere. Brian May loved Rory Gallagher and used Vox AC30s because Rory turned him on to it. A lot of blues players go for strats, ES 335s because thatís what a lot of iconic blues players played. I think there is some merit in using a standard to find your own voice. For instance I got into synths because of John Carpenter and I tend to model a lot of my patches and set up after his but then Iím also using it as a starting point to finding my own voice.

I do agree though that the people demanding it arenít willing to pay the cost of their desire.

Oh, I'm not arguing over inspiration. Nothing comes out of nowhere and that can also influence what instrument one picks. I highly doubt, though, that the likes of Brian May, Rory Gallagher, or David Gilmour obsessed over gear the way it's common on certain forums now. Most of the time, those players just picked what was available, and when they were young and didn't have much to spend, they bought used gear or whatever else was available. Practice, performance, songwriting and achieving certain sonic results were the things at the center of attention, not a somewhat fetishized instrument or brand itself. In some cases, musicians from that generation are also bewildered by the current interest in vintage gear. John Carpenter, who's mainly playing a Kronos these days, is probably one of them.

Shaw

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Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #17 on: December 13, 2017, 01:25:35 PM »
I'm happy to see Behringer reviving some of the old classics. But I have never been big on Behringer so my question is essentially this:  can anybody here speak to the build / sound quality of recent Behringer products?  specifically synths?


About 15 years ago, I was considering a Behringer mixer, and a sales rep at Sweetwater who I trusted (and still trust) warned me away from them due to build and sound quality. Since then I have had that bias toward Behringer -- I've associated them with lower quality products.  Has this changed?  It is certainly possible. Over the years, a companies QC can change drastically (just look at Ford).


Any opinions from Behringer owners here???  (and thanks)
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rockīn roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #18 on: December 13, 2017, 01:28:27 PM »
I mean obviously inspiration has to come from somewhere. Brian May loved Rory Gallagher and used Vox AC30s because Rory turned him on to it. A lot of blues players go for strats, ES 335s because thatís what a lot of iconic blues players played. I think there is some merit in using a standard to find your own voice. For instance I got into synths because of John Carpenter and I tend to model a lot of my patches and set up after his but then Iím also using it as a starting point to finding my own voice.

I do agree though that the people demanding it arenít willing to pay the cost of their desire.

Oh, I'm not arguing over inspiration. Nothing comes out of nowhere and that can also influence what instrument one picks. I highly doubt, though, that the likes of Brian May, Rory Gallagher, or David Gilmour obsessed over gear the way it's common on certain forums now. Most of the time, those players just picked what was available, and when they were young and didn't have much to spend, they bought used gear or whatever else was available. Practice, performance, songwriting and achieving certain sonic results were the things at the center of attention, not a somewhat fetishized instrument or brand itself. In some cases, musicians from that generation are also bewildered by the current interest in vintage gear. John Carpenter, who's mainly playing a Kronos these days, is probably one of them.

Oh yeah Carpenter mostly uses Logic now. He said heís a lazy keyboard player. Has no idea how to program or what any of the knobs do. ďPush a key or button. I can do that.Ē

But Iím not interested his his opinion, only his music and movies.
Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

Re: It's happened....Behringer....
« Reply #19 on: December 13, 2017, 01:30:47 PM »
I'm happy to see Behringer reviving some of the old classics. But I have never been big on Behringer so my question is essentially this:  can anybody here speak to the build / sound quality of recent Behringer products?  specifically synths?

About 15 years ago, I was considering a Behringer mixer, and a sales rep at Sweetwater who I trusted (and still trust) warned me away from them due to build and sound quality. Since then I have had that bias toward Behringer -- I've associated them with lower quality products.  Has this changed?  It is certainly possible. Over the years, a companies QC can change drastically (just look at Ford).

Any opinions from Behringer owners here???  (and thanks)

If it's of any help, I came across this video by a guy who repairs Moog synthesizers:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pRiUSf_QFw