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NAMM 2018

NAMM 2018
« on: November 21, 2017, 08:35:11 AM »
Korg is slated to bring out a new Polysynth but what are some other ideas/wishes/predictions you all have?

Arturia-Polybrute. A four or six voice polyphonic synth with the same VCOs and filters found in the Matrixbrute.

Roger Linn-

1.) A box that's similar to the Andrenalinn guitar pedals but instead of guitar tones it features MPE supported sound samples (Saxophone, Violin, Harmonica etc) to be played with the Linnstrument. Thus making the Linnstrument somewhat standalone without the need to plug into a computer or external synth.

2.) The Linn Drum II. Not sure what exactly it will entail but I'm assuming it'll be much more digital oriented than analog just to differentiate it from the Tempest

3.) I would also like to see another LINN/SMITH collaboration but this time take the expressiveness of the Linnstrument and somehow put it inside a new DSI synth. Not sure exactly how that would work but it would give the same level of expressiveness that a CS-80 had.

KORG

-My money is still on an eight or ten voice analog poly synth that's hopefully bitimral.

Moog
-Nothing. LOL

« Last Edit: January 27, 2018, 04:14:51 AM by Paul Dither »
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano,Kurzweil K2600XS, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2017, 05:57:31 PM »
Korg P******* analog or hybrid poly synth. Could still be anything. Either something full-sized based on the Minilogue and Monologue, or a hybrid follow-up to the King Korg.

Arturia could very well be cooking up an analog poly as well. They definitely have a new synth coming up.

Dunno about Roger Linn. The next bigger project might be the long planned LinnDrum II, but that may still take a while.

Yamaha could finally release the FM half of the Montage, but I assume that won't happen. (Not that I lose any sleep over this.)

Roland might come out with more cloud stuff and an ACB-based flagship because the Jupiter-80 and 50 have just been discontinued. (Again, nothing that I find too exciting anyway.)

Moog? - No idea, really. I don't expect huge news yet, as the Subsequent 37 has just been released. Maybe rather around the time of the next Moogfest.

Elektron might have the Rytm MKII ready by then, although it should start shipping by the end of this month already. With all of their MKII releases, I don't expect any major news in January. Maybe a new keyboard version of the Analog Four.

I'm curious whether this young designer made any progress on the Relic-6.

Not sure about the dozens of really small manufacturers or software. There's simply too much and the interesting stuff also doesn't always lead to big headlines. I'm looking forward to Nick Batt's coverage, though.

It's going to be interesting to see whether anything will indicate if the whole analog market may be hitting the point of oversaturation soon.

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2017, 06:56:13 PM »
Korg P******* analog or hybrid poly synth. Could still be anything. Either something full-sized based on the Minilogue and Monologue, or a hybrid follow-up to the King Korg.

Arturia could very well be cooking up an analog poly as well. They definitely have a new synth coming up.

Dunno about Roger Linn. The next bigger project might be the long planned LinnDrum II, but that may still take a while.

Yamaha could finally release the FM half of the Montage, but I assume that won't happen. (Not that I lose any sleep over this.)

Roland might come out with more cloud stuff and an ACB-based flagship because the Jupiter-80 and 50 have just been discontinued. (Again, nothing that I find too exciting anyway.)

Moog? - No idea, really. I don't expect huge news yet, as the Subsequent 37 has just been released. Maybe rather around the time of the next Moogfest.

Elektron might have the Rytm MKII ready by then, although it should start shipping by the end of this month already. With all of their MKII releases, I don't expect any major news in January. Maybe a new keyboard version of the Analog Four.

I'm curious whether this young designer made any progress on the Relic-6.

Not sure about the dozens of really small manufacturers or software. There's simply too much and the interesting stuff also doesn't always lead to big headlines. I'm looking forward to Nick Batt's coverage, though.

It's going to be interesting to see whether anything will indicate if the whole analog market may be hitting the point of oversaturation soon.

It has hit oversaturation just not in the right way (mono synths, volca series gizmos and mini Keys) perhaps though this was all about testing the water and getting some income to build bigger things.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano,Kurzweil K2600XS, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2017, 08:47:17 PM »
It has hit oversaturation just not in the right way (mono synths, volca series gizmos and mini Keys) perhaps though this was all about testing the water and getting some income to build bigger things.

The monosynth craze is hitting critical mass.  It's like going to buy an acoustic guitar; you can buy one for under 100 moneys that may be clunky, awkward to play and dubious sounding, but you can get one for under 100 moneys.  Or you can get one for 20x that.

With regards to Korg; I like to think things like the Volcas are market-researching hors d'oeuvres.  The only really complete product from that range is the Kick, with all the other boxes being basically advanced Monotrons.  The miniKeys are definitely in for the long haul from what I can see.  I like that they seem to have finished with their re-issues and re-imaginings and are looking forward not backwards.

Korg P******* analog or hybrid poly synth. Could still be anything. Either something full-sized based on the Minilogue and Monologue, or a hybrid follow-up to the King Korg.

Arturia could very well be cooking up an analog poly as well. They definitely have a new synth coming up.

Dunno about Roger Linn. The next bigger project might be the long planned LinnDrum II, but that may still take a while.

Yamaha could finally release the FM half of the Montage, but I assume that won't happen. (Not that I lose any sleep over this.)

Roland might come out with more cloud stuff and an ACB-based flagship because the Jupiter-80 and 50 have just been discontinued. (Again, nothing that I find too exciting anyway.)

Moog? - No idea, really. I don't expect huge news yet, as the Subsequent 37 has just been released. Maybe rather around the time of the next Moogfest.

Elektron might have the Rytm MKII ready by then, although it should start shipping by the end of this month already. With all of their MKII releases, I don't expect any major news in January. Maybe a new keyboard version of the Analog Four.

I'm curious whether this young designer made any progress on the Relic-6.

Not sure about the dozens of really small manufacturers or software. There's simply too much and the interesting stuff also doesn't always lead to big headlines. I'm looking forward to Nick Batt's coverage, though.

It's going to be interesting to see whether anything will indicate if the whole analog market may be hitting the point of oversaturation soon.

Arturia are due a new hardware product and I'm hoping they are feeling the hybrid call with a combination of the Origin and their Brute series forth coming.  I am really looking forward to a KeyStep Pro or a step-sequencing workstation that has the Key Step and Beat Step concepts mushed together on a KeyLab or even MiniLab controller.  I find Arturia's mini keys on the Key Step are very playable with my long skeletal fingers and being a step sequencer, it's not like accuracy of playing is really a concern.  Currently my Key Step and BSP are sitting on a custom stand and used basically as one unit.

I'm with you on the idea of letting Nick tell me all about what's good from the smaller peeps, heheh.

In my mind, the resurgence of analogue effects combined with Roland scrambling to catch up to Korg and Yamaha's 'member-berry releases in glorious analogue formats, the indicator of critical mass has already arrived.  The Peak I hope is a sign of what we will be seeing more of, not the SE-02.

Boutiques have attained that "okay you can stop now" status.  Too many one man operations for the level of pokemon synth buyers in today's market (gotta catch them all!) and it's ushering in a acceptance of shitty plastic boxes for housing of perceived artisan synths, not to mention one-man support is always slow.  Please modular world, keep your musings in your racks unless you are willing to work with wood or steel!  I don't want it to stop really, it's put the wind up the big guys in a good way, but I want it evolve into a mature subset of a mature market.  Put the prices up and remove the toy element and we are at where Elektron started their climb to greatness.
(whatever happened with Paul Maddox's wave I wonder....ooh he has an entry in Wikipedia, cool!)

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #4 on: November 22, 2017, 07:50:54 AM »
It has hit oversaturation just not in the right way (mono synths, volca series gizmos and mini Keys) perhaps though this was all about testing the water and getting some income to build bigger things.

 I like that they seem to have finished with their re-issues and re-imaginings and are looking forward not backwards.


I still would like to see them utilize the ARP name though. Seems like a waste to do it as a one off.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano,Kurzweil K2600XS, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #5 on: November 22, 2017, 09:11:03 PM »
It has hit oversaturation just not in the right way (mono synths, volca series gizmos and mini Keys) perhaps though this was all about testing the water and getting some income to build bigger things.

 I like that they seem to have finished with their re-issues and re-imaginings and are looking forward not backwards.


I still would like to see them utilize the ARP name though. Seems like a waste to do it as a one off.

Oh for sure, I'd not turn my nose up at a 2600 in full size, just don't want a new century Poly800.

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2017, 05:08:51 AM »
It has hit oversaturation just not in the right way (mono synths, volca series gizmos and mini Keys) perhaps though this was all about testing the water and getting some income to build bigger things.

 I like that they seem to have finished with their re-issues and re-imaginings and are looking forward not backwards.


I still would like to see them utilize the ARP name though. Seems like a waste to do it as a one off.

Oh for sure, I'd not turn my nose up at a 2600 in full size, just don't want a new century Poly800.

I dunno a bi-timbral 8-10 voice full sized minilogue sounds nice but honestly I think they would have more success with the ARP name alone be it the 2600, Quadra, Chroma etc.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano,Kurzweil K2600XS, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2017, 05:31:02 AM »
I dunno a bi-timbral 8-10 voice full sized minilogue sounds nice but honestly I think they would have more success with the ARP name alone be it the 2600, Quadra, Chroma etc.

As the whole ARP revival by Korg only included reissues (with the exception of the Odyssey desktop module), I can't really see any of that happening. A 2600 at most for popularity reasons - the other two have only a rather small fanclub compared to how many people enjoy other classic synths.

One thing to consider, though, is that the Odysseys didn't sell as well as the MS-20 Minis, mainly due to their higher price and partially the more unfamiliar interface. I can remember very well when retailers were telling me they'd be priced too high and only collect dust in the stores (the price was lowered by Korg after a while). Even a shrunken 2600 would still be more expensive than the standard Odysseys Korg re-released, so I remain skeptical about any further KARP products. You can even still get the limited FS models, which tells a lot I think.
« Last Edit: November 23, 2017, 05:33:59 AM by Paul Dither »

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2017, 05:41:05 AM »
With regards to Korg; I like to think things like the Volcas are market-researching hors d'oeuvres.  The only really complete product from that range is the Kick, with all the other boxes being basically advanced Monotrons.

All Volcas really go far beyond the Monotron and they were meant to be complementary from the get-go: Bass synth, poly synth, drum machine. Then you also have the sample and FM models. Their whole purpose was to make accessible instruments for musicians who can't afford expensive mono or poly synths, and in that Korg succeeded.

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2017, 10:48:51 AM »
I dunno a bi-timbral 8-10 voice full sized minilogue sounds nice but honestly I think they would have more success with the ARP name alone be it the 2600, Quadra, Chroma etc.

As the whole ARP revival by Korg only included reissues (with the exception of the Odyssey desktop module), I can't really see any of that happening. A 2600 at most for popularity reasons - the other two have only a rather small fanclub compared to how many people enjoy other classic synths.

One thing to consider, though, is that the Odysseys didn't sell as well as the MS-20 Minis, mainly due to their higher price and partially the more unfamiliar interface. I can remember very well when retailers were telling me they'd be priced too high and only collect dust in the stores (the price was lowered by Korg after a while). Even a shrunken 2600 would still be more expensive than the standard Odysseys Korg re-released, so I remain skeptical about any further KARP products. You can even still get the limited FS models, which tells a lot I think.

At $1600 for the FS units, you're almost into original vintage, Pratt-Read keybed territory–which might be part of the reason that their uptake (FS units, anyway) has been so slow. At $1200 or less, they're a bit more reasonable....

Also, I've seen the 86% keyboard units in the sub-$600 range in decent used condition, nearly $1K less than their FS equivalents.
Sequential / DSI / Pioneer stuff: Prophet 12 Desktop, Mono Evolver Keyboard, TORAIZ AS-1, Prophet-600 Gligli, Prophet 2000

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2017, 08:41:25 AM »
Moog
-Nothing. LOL

Obviously not: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jq7zUKEcyzI

So according to Amos Gaynes and Geert Bevin it'll be a "system on a module" whose interface will feature buttons, knobs, and a big LCD at its center. It'll run Linux to host JUCE to display what's being shown on the LCD. It's probably a flagship product, as they took future siblings into account while they developed it, which will be ultimately dependent on marketing decisions. And they're looking for an iOS developer.

blewis

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Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2017, 10:00:17 AM »
System On a Module refers to the hardware running the Linux OS. They are using an off the shelf System On a Module, they are not creating one.

Still quite interesting. Central LCD is very “new Moog”. They also mentioned a family of products.

Pretty cool and unexpected for Moog to have an LCD GUI.

blewis

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Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2017, 10:03:12 AM »
When I first saw this:

https://www.uaudio.com/uad-plugins/special-processing/moog-multimode-filter-xl-collection.html

I thought it looked so much like real hardware that it would be insane to see it in real life. That’s a good style combo.

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2017, 10:12:51 AM »
System On a Module refers to the hardware running the Linux OS. They are using an off the shelf System On a Module, they are not creating one.

Yes, probably. The whole Linux thing reminded me of Modal Electronics first. Here it's the basis for running JUCE, which Amos already used for creating Moog's software editors. I'm curious if his references to the Push 2 and Machine controllers are anything to go by, but it seems so, as there were some hints about visualizations of waveforms for example.

And then it's still open whether the call for iOS developers is related to the new product.

Not sure, whether this new synth will just look like a Voyager with an iPad at its center.
« Last Edit: November 26, 2017, 10:16:20 AM by Paul Dither »

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2017, 10:53:53 AM »
System On a Module refers to the hardware running the Linux OS. They are using an off the shelf System On a Module, they are not creating one.

Yes, probably. The whole Linux thing reminded me of Modal Electronics first. Here it's the basis for running JUCE, which Amos already used for creating Moog's software editors. I'm curious if his references to the Push 2 and Machine controllers are anything to go by, but it seems so, as there were some hints about visualizations of waveforms for example.

And then it's still open whether the call for iOS developers is related to the new product.

Not sure, whether this new synth will just look like a Voyager with an iPad at its center.

It’ll also likely will be monophonic as well. We will have to wait and see but so far I’m not sold on the description him hearing.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano,Kurzweil K2600XS, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #15 on: November 27, 2017, 02:27:23 PM »
It'll run Linux to host JUCE to display what's being shown on the LCD.

Honestly I got somewhat mixed feelings about embedded Linux in a musical instrument. Not because of the features it offers to the instruments developers but simply because of basic computer security concerns.

In a few years time from release the instruments may not have upgraded software and will be a ticking time bombs just waiting to attack other computers in the home or studio without the owner being able to do anything about it.

One certainly develops an appreciation for smaller embedded solutions though these can have similar issues too. But as the OS is smaller and not widely used its less likely to be a target for malware. But of cause nothing is immune to government enforced "features".
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Shaw

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Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #16 on: November 27, 2017, 03:25:32 PM »
It'll run Linux to host JUCE to display what's being shown on the LCD.

Honestly I got somewhat mixed feelings about embedded Linux in a musical instrument. Not because of the features it offers to the instruments developers but simply because of basic computer security concerns.

In a few years time from release the instruments may not have upgraded software and will be a ticking time bombs just waiting to attack other computers in the home or studio without the owner being able to do anything about it.

One certainly develops an appreciation for smaller embedded solutions though these can have similar issues too. But as the OS is smaller and not widely used its less likely to be a target for malware. But of cause nothing is immune to government enforced "features".
Aside from security concerns, I’m not even sure why you need or want a version of Linux in a hardware synth. Seems like a waste of resources.  Maybe I’m misunderstanding their intentions.
"Classical musicians go to the conservatories, rock´n roll musicians go to the garages." --- Frank Zappa

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #17 on: November 27, 2017, 03:40:50 PM »
Aside from security concerns, I’m not even sure why you need or want a version of Linux in a hardware synth. Seems like a waste of resources.  Maybe I’m misunderstanding their intentions.

Good point! Of cause it depends on what one wants the product to do. If its network features or other types of connectivity such as bluetooth then there may be a good reason for using Linux. Not to mention that its way easier to write code to run as a Linux user space application than it is for embedded software. Virtual memory makes memory access errors much more graceful than corewars in an embedded product.

Another good reason is hardware solutions such as Rasberry Pi that offers cheap boards running Linux. Integrating such a board into an instrument gives the developers a good starting point instead of having to do the digital hardware from the ground up.

Anyway, I would much prefer a dedicated embedded solution for a normal synthesizer. Not at least because of security concerns.

Will be interesting to see what Moog are up to with their new product.
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2017, 01:53:57 AM »
It would be sort of sad if Moog goes virtual analog. Not saying virtual analog is bad but with other companies charging far less far their analog poly synths it be pretty sad to see Moog finally do another Poly after all this time...except it’s digital. Doesn’t matter what the features are i just think it might backfire. Korg, DSI, my god even Behringer are doing analog poly synths and if Moog’s response to the requests from fans for their own poly synth is an Animoog inside the body of a Voyager, a lot of faces are going to be buried in palms.
Prophet 6, Prophet X, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano,Kurzweil K2600XS, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinn iii

Re: Predictions for NAMM?
« Reply #19 on: December 04, 2017, 02:57:38 AM »
It would be sort of sad if Moog goes virtual analog. Not saying virtual analog is bad but with other companies charging far less far their analog poly synths it be pretty sad to see Moog finally do another Poly after all this time...except it’s digital. Doesn’t matter what the features are i just think it might backfire. Korg, DSI, my god even Behringer are doing analog poly synths and if Moog’s response to the requests from fans for their own poly synth is an Animoog inside the body of a Voyager, a lot of faces are going to be buried in palms.

Absolutely nothing in the presentation by Amos Gaynes and Geert Bevin indicates that Moog are going VA. The talk is only about interface design and prototyping and what tools are or have been used throughout the process. It's not about voice design.

So technically the next synth can still contain an analog signal path. The operating system of Modal Electronic's 002 and 008 also runs on Linux and these are no VA synths. The only thing that is mentioned about the actual synth's design is that its interface will feature knobs and buttons, and a centered LCD display on which content will be shown that is produced by JUCE running on Linux. That's it. No hint whatsoever about the voice architecture or the voice number.

What could be inferred about the front panel design is that it might be related to controllers like Ableton's Push 2 or Native Instruments' Maschine: You have a big display with encoders above and/or below that change function according to what's being shown on the display.