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Will we see a new Evolver?

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #60 on: January 23, 2018, 02:15:51 PM »
A+.  Thanks, Paul.

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #61 on: January 23, 2018, 02:17:04 PM »
Haha, you're welcome.

buchlabum

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Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #62 on: January 23, 2018, 08:17:49 PM »
There's still a fair amount of people who like the Evolvers. Currently, there's a thread on Muff Wiggler about the MEK and the desktop version, in which most participants are really enthusiastic about it. The German online music tech magazine amazona.de, for which I occasionally write as well, released an article about all Evolvers in 2016 again, calling the Poly Evolver Keyboard PE Dave's best synth. There's even consensus about it having been underrated at first. And many people also point out the sonic differences between the Prophet 12, the Pro 2, and the Evolvers. So from that I'd say that its unique sound and hybrid architecture are still appreciated today.

That's my thread.  :D
Well, today I bought a rack poly (not the one that's been sitting at $2000) to add to the MEK and 2 desktops.  I also have a hold on another desktop, but that was before the PER happened, so I'll probably either sell one and have 6 voices, or keep them all for a while and have 7 voices.

I like the pro2 (just got that last weekend), but wish it had more of the digital side of the evolver, at least the wavetables and ability to upload my own. 

But a new Evolver Rev2 with 4 voices in the MEK size and 16 in the full size, updated sequencer, yadda yadda..., would be awesome.  I'm pretty sure it's just a pipe dream, but it's a nice dream.

I've got enough new DSI stuff lately (a Rev2 a month ago and a Tempest on the way) to keep me occupied until the day Dave announces a EvolvedRev2 flagship mono and poly synths.

I thought I would have a Moog one day, but the desire is waning.  I'm ending up mainly DSI, Buchla, and some Elektron.

Still want a new Evolver one day...so count me in as #21 of the people on the planet Earth who are wise enough to want a new Evolver.  :D

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #63 on: January 23, 2018, 08:28:17 PM »
...so count me in as #21 of the people on the planet Earth who are wise enough to want a new Evolver.  :D

I'm going to take up a collection for this cause from you twenty-one Evolverites and forward the money to San Francisco (well, most of it).  I'm just about ready to resort to bribery if I have to.
« Last Edit: January 23, 2018, 08:31:04 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #64 on: January 24, 2018, 04:36:41 AM »
I think it goes without saying that if Dave were to ever bring a new Poly Evolver out it would definitely have more features, more voices and generally be upgraded or improved.

But it has to be Blue.
Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #65 on: January 24, 2018, 06:19:58 AM »
I really do hope they add samples on the digital oscillators as well. Especially if they use Prophet 2000 samples as on board samples. Imagine that...analog, FM, VS, Wavetable and samples in one synth....perhaps that's why it won't be done?
Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #66 on: January 24, 2018, 07:00:52 AM »
I really do hope they add samples on the digital oscillators as well. Especially if they use Prophet 2000 samples as on board samples. Imagine that...analog, FM, VS, Wavetable and samples in one synth....perhaps that's why it won't be done?

Most of the times it's better to have dedicated tools instead of one that tries to do it all, particularly in hardware. Not only for reasons of potentially overwhelming prospective users, but because it allows you to stay focused. And the Evolvers can already do a lot, just like the Prophet 12 or the Pro 2.

The Yamaha Montage on the other side is a good example for a synth that does too much, although it only provides two engines. But those two engines are ones that seem to be mutually exclusive when it comes to the associated user groups. One half–the by now traditional(ist) Yamaha clientele–is mostly interested in the AWM2 aspect and FM-X only if it provides nice presets. The other half that is more interested in synthesis options, couldn't care less about wedding band purposes and the AWM2 part. They would have been happy with a pure FM-X synth in the first place.

Other than that, the synth you're asking for would partially end up being a concealed Intel–or whatever–based computer with some hybrid engine add-ons. Its development would also entail a huge coding challenge, an almost as huge interface design and signal routing challenge, and a rather high sales price, which would in turn limit the amount of prospective buyers, who are not already put off by too much complexity. To keep things manageable in the relatively small format of a 61 keys synth chassis, you would also most likely end up sitting in front of a big touch screen anyway, which naturally diminishes the difference to working with an iPad or a laptop. I also don't get what's so special about the Prophet 2000 samples in 2018. I mean I wouldn't even get it if they had been as iconic as the Fairlight or Emulator samples.

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #67 on: January 24, 2018, 09:17:00 AM »
I really do hope they add samples on the digital oscillators as well. Especially if they use Prophet 2000 samples as on board samples. Imagine that...analog, FM, VS, Wavetable and samples in one synth....perhaps that's why it won't be done?

Most of the times it's better to have dedicated tools instead of one that tries to do it all, particularly in hardware. Not only for reasons of potentially overwhelming prospective users, but because it allows you to stay focused. And the Evolvers can already do a lot, just like the Prophet 12 or the Pro 2.

The Yamaha Montage on the other side is a good example for a synth that does too much, although it only provides two engines. But those two engines are ones that seem to be mutually exclusive when it comes to the associated user groups. One half–the by now traditional(ist) Yamaha clientele–is mostly interested in the AWM2 aspect and FM-X only if it provides nice presets. The other half that is more interested in synthesis options, couldn't care less about wedding band purposes and the AWM2 part. They would have been happy with a pure FM-X synth in the first place.

Other than that, the synth you're asking for would partially end up being a concealed Intel–or whatever–based computer with some hybrid engine add-ons. Its development would also entail a huge coding challenge, an almost as huge interface design and signal routing challenge, and a rather high sales price, which would in turn limit the amount of prospective buyers, who are not already put off by too much complexity. To keep things manageable in the relatively small format of a 61 keys synth chassis, you would also most likely end up sitting in front of a big touch screen anyway, which naturally diminishes the difference to working with an iPad or a laptop. I also don't get what's so special about the Prophet 2000 samples in 2018. I mean I wouldn't even get it if they had been as iconic as the Fairlight or Emulator samples.

Well look at something like the Tempest. Take that concept and turn it into a synthesizer. Except instead of drum samples, use samples of pianos, choirs, strings, bass, guitar etc. 

The Prophet 2000 samples add a nice bit of low fi nostalgia but it would also have the ability to upload your own samples and run them through the filters (similar to the Nord Wave.) It might not be your thing personally but a lot of people still love old sampler sounds so...why not? Can't hurt.
Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

buchlabum

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Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #68 on: January 24, 2018, 09:01:55 PM »
Well look at something like the Tempest. Take that concept and turn it into a synthesizer. Except instead of drum samples, use samples of pianos, choirs, strings, bass, guitar etc. 

The Prophet 2000 samples add a nice bit of low fi nostalgia but it would also have the ability to upload your own samples and run them through the filters (similar to the Nord Wave.) It might not be your thing personally but a lot of people still love old sampler sounds so...why not? Can't hurt.

That could be cool to mangle or resynthesize those sounds, almost like a Kyma system morphing sounds, but Kyma and Kontakt already sample, HUGE samples, and do it well because of how massive the average desktops are now in comparison to something like a S5000 (I loved mine until Kontakt) hardware wise. 

I feel like an Evolver2 playing back a piano sample set to sound like a piano, wouldn't be an Evolver.  But that's just me. one with more memory, where the user could do whatever they want would be cool, but if you give a user 1meg, they'll want 4 megs.  Give them 256megs of ram, and they'll want a couple gigs of ram.   
« Last Edit: January 24, 2018, 09:04:34 PM by buchlabum »

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #69 on: January 25, 2018, 03:14:24 AM »
I really do hope they add samples on the digital oscillators as well. Especially if they use Prophet 2000 samples as on board samples. Imagine that...analog, FM, VS, Wavetable and samples in one synth....perhaps that's why it won't be done?

The base onboard samples used on the Prophet 2000 (i.e., built into ROM) are very short, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were similar to Prophet VS or Prophet-12/Pro-2 waves.

The sound of the Prophet 2000 comes from the variable sample rate playback, rather than stuff-and-dump playback at a fixed sample rate, so I wouldn't expect that to be a feature on a modern sampler due to its (electronic) complexity–but it's not impossible.

There is no aliasing, and I'd consider that to be a necessary artifact (if not the glorious sound) of the Evolver.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2018, 03:17:17 AM by DavidDever »
Sequential / DSI / Pioneer stuff: OB-6 Desktop, Prophet 12 Desktop, Mono Evolver Keyboard, Pro 2, TORAIZ AS-1, Prophet-600 Gligli, Prophet 2000

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #70 on: January 25, 2018, 03:18:56 AM »
I really do hope they add samples on the digital oscillators as well. Especially if they use Prophet 2000 samples as on board samples. Imagine that...analog, FM, VS, Wavetable and samples in one synth....perhaps that's why it won't be done?

The base onboard samples used on the Prophet 2000 (i.e., built into ROM) are very short, and I wouldn't be surprised if they were similar to Prophet VS or Prophet-12/Pro-2 waves.

The sound of the Prophet 2000 comes from the variable sample rate playback, rather than stuff-and-dump playback at a fixed sample rate, so I wouldn't expect that to be a feature on a modern sampler due to its (electronic) complexity–but it's not impossible.

There is no aliasing, and I'd consider that to be a necessary artifact (if not the glorious sound) of the Evolver.

Ahh but how about an aliasing dial much like the slop dial where you can dial in how much aliasing you want?
Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #71 on: January 25, 2018, 03:20:56 AM »
Well look at something like the Tempest. Take that concept and turn it into a synthesizer. Except instead of drum samples, use samples of pianos, choirs, strings, bass, guitar etc. 

The Prophet 2000 samples add a nice bit of low fi nostalgia but it would also have the ability to upload your own samples and run them through the filters (similar to the Nord Wave.) It might not be your thing personally but a lot of people still love old sampler sounds so...why not? Can't hurt.

That could be cool to mangle or resynthesize those sounds, almost like a Kyma system morphing sounds, but Kyma and Kontakt already sample, HUGE samples, and do it well because of how massive the average desktops are now in comparison to something like a S5000 (I loved mine until Kontakt) hardware wise. 

I feel like an Evolver2 playing back a piano sample set to sound like a piano, wouldn't be an Evolver.  But that's just me. one with more memory, where the user could do whatever they want would be cool, but if you give a user 1meg, they'll want 4 megs.  Give them 256megs of ram, and they'll want a couple gigs of ram.

It's not meant to only sound like a piano sample (Although it could) it's meant to take a piano sound and synthesize it and manipulate it so it sounds odd. To add another timber to the pallet.
Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #72 on: January 25, 2018, 08:29:00 AM »
A Poly Evolver with piano samples would a cry out for a piano-type keyboard.  I realize many workstations use typical synthesizer/organ-type keyboards, but it's an awkward combination.

The primary new features I'd like to see on a Poly Evolver Rev2 would be the ability to adjust the amount of digital aliasing -say, from 0-10, a resonance on the high pass filter, a more gradual increase of LFO Amount (especially in the third envelope), an arpeggiator, and a keyboard quality to match that of the Rev2.

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #73 on: January 26, 2018, 02:48:53 AM »
A Poly Evolver with piano samples would a cry out for a piano-type keyboard.  I realize many workstations use typical synthesizer/organ-type keyboards, but it's an awkward combination.

It's only awkward when you intend to play it like a piano rather than utilize a piano sound as a total pallet. Turn off your mind.

On Dave Rossum's new Assimil8r you can adjust how much aliasing you want in a sample. Should be able to do that on a synth too.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2018, 01:58:17 PM by chysn »
Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

chysn

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Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #74 on: February 02, 2018, 01:57:07 PM »
A Poly Evolver with piano samples would a cry out for a piano-type keyboard.  I realize many workstations use typical synthesizer/organ-type keyboards, but it's an awkward combination.

You can get used to it. I mean, it's not the same, but you can play a piano tone on a synth without too much cognitive (and/or musical) dissonance.

Korg realized that the lack of a piano sound was dampening sales of the original Wavestation, which was the sort of sample-based synth that seemed like it should have a piano sound. So they quickly released the Wavestation EX, which added piano (and drums and Prophet VS waves) in response to people's expectations. The lesson here is that anything with sample ROM should probably have piano samples, even though pianos are ridiculously hard to sample.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Arturia MicroBrute
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore2
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #75 on: February 02, 2018, 02:58:57 PM »
A Poly Evolver with piano samples would a cry out for a piano-type keyboard.  I realize many workstations use typical synthesizer/organ-type keyboards, but it's an awkward combination.

You can get used to it. I mean, it's not the same, but you can play a piano tone on a synth without too much cognitive (and/or musical) dissonance.

Korg realized that the lack of a piano sound was dampening sales of the original Wavestation, which was the sort of sample-based synth that seemed like it should have a piano sound. So they quickly released the Wavestation EX, which added piano (and drums and Prophet VS waves) in response to people's expectations. The lesson here is that anything with sample ROM should probably have piano samples, even though pianos are ridiculously hard to sample.

The way I see it is you can take natural sounds like piano, vocals, guitars, strings, and run them through the synthesis engine and filters. Run them with arpeggiators, etc You aren’t limited to a piano sound, you are limited to what your imagination can do for said piano sound. 
Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #76 on: February 03, 2018, 01:20:37 PM »
Sort of like this...

https://youtu.be/SnwQUGTJ6iM
Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #77 on: February 12, 2018, 12:02:53 PM »
The more I look around and consider my next new synthesizer, the more I appreciate that the Poly Evolver Keyboard is an exceptionally unique instrument and that probably nothing currently in production could substitute for it.  It has a unique PPG-Wavestation-VS old school digital character that's not easily replaced.  In one moment I'm thinking of selling a PEK to finance another synthesizer, and in the next I'm recoiling in horror at the thought and considering instead expanding my eight-voice PEK with another PER!  Yes, a twelve-voice PEK would be wonderful, especially for wide-ranging arpeggios.

I do hope DSI hears us and responds at the designing desk.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 01:01:49 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #78 on: February 12, 2018, 12:56:53 PM »
The more I look around and consider my next new synthesizer, the more I appreciate that the Poly Evolver Keyboard is an exceptionally unique instrument and that probably nothing currently in production could replace it.  It has a unique PPG-Wavestation-VS old school digital character that's not easily replaced.  In one moment I'm thinking of selling a PEK to finance another synthesizer, and in the next I'm recoiling in horror at the thought and considering instead expanding my eight-voice PEK with another PER!  Yes, a twelve-voice PEK would be wonderful, especially for wide-ranging arpeggios.

I do hope DSI hears us and responds at the designing desk.

I hope so too.
Prophet 6, Oberheim Two Voice Pro, Moog Sub 37, Tempest Drum Computer, Roland V Piano, Vogel CMI Fairlight Pro App, Kurzweil K2600XS, Korg Kronos, Roland FA-08, Baldwin Upright Piano, Fender Stratocaster, Fender Telecaster, Gibson Chet Atkins SST, Jackson King V, Ibanez Jem, Roger Linn Adrenalinniii

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #79 on: February 12, 2018, 01:38:07 PM »
It has a unique PPG-Wavestation-VS old school digital character that's not easily replaced.

I would be sad if DSI makes an updated exact copy of the Evolver with digital highpass filter and delays in mono.

Rather keep the elements that make it sound so unique such as the way the digital waveshapes are rendered as analog signals, the combination of analog/digital oscillators complete with sequencer, tuned feedback and delays. Better synthesizer ingredients exists these days for filters and analog oscillators so why not head in that direction? And maybe consider using more than one rendering of digital oscillators?

That is of cause not going to happen. But the strength that makes the Evolver so hard to beat is exactly the digital diversity on a solid analog foundation.
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