The Official DSI/Sequential Forum

PEK and PER for Sale

Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #20 on: December 27, 2015, 11:36:09 PM »
When I first got my P12 my PEK never got played at all. I even began thinking maybe to store it away as I needed the space.

Recently though it has started getting used again, so I ended up getting another keyboard stand and squeezing it in rather than storing it.

So it must have something going for it!

Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #21 on: December 28, 2015, 12:10:15 PM »
Already at Sequential there had been conversations about what would eventually become the Evolver.

Thanks for the history lesson, Paul Dither! Gotta get and read that book one day. Its nice to know one of my favorite voice architectures have such a long history.

As for the typical subtractive synth architecture: I too would be ready for something different. I would even consider it to be inevitable, since I don't really see what could be added to the concepts of the Prophet-12, Pro 2, or Prophet-6 other than quantitative aspects.

Good question! As for heading in new directions I would as hinted to previously turn to experienced eurorack modular customers to look for new combinations. Would not be too surprised if new interesting voices happens initially by Mutable Instruments given all his digital signal processing knowledge and innovative character.

As for extending Pro 2 and Prophet 12 I would suggest analog and digital oscillators plus analog filter feedback on Prophet 12 for better analog tone shaping. That would have made them more similar to the Evolver but also improved their sonic substance noticeably.

What the Evolver did right was an interesting combination of analog and digital features. It was not be perfect and there are plenty of room for more features but it was a nice take on a complex modulation machine. These days we want more but the Evolver is a good starting point. In any case the eurorack world points in interesting new directions.
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #22 on: December 28, 2015, 12:43:58 PM »
Already at Sequential there had been conversations about what would eventually become the Evolver.

Thanks for the history lesson, Paul Dither! Gotta get and read that book one day. Its nice to know one of my favorite voice architectures have such a long history.

Oh, it's just mentioned in a short paragraph. It would certainly be interesting to investigate a little further.

As for the typical subtractive synth architecture: I too would be ready for something different. I would even consider it to be inevitable, since I don't really see what could be added to the concepts of the Prophet-12, Pro 2, or Prophet-6 other than quantitative aspects.

Good question! As for heading in new directions I would as hinted to previously turn to experienced eurorack modular customers to look for new combinations. Would not be too surprised if new interesting voices happens initially by Mutable Instruments given all his digital signal processing knowledge and innovative character.

As for extending Pro 2 and Prophet 12 I would suggest analog and digital oscillators plus analog filter feedback on Prophet 12 for better analog tone shaping. That would have made them more similar to the Evolver but also improved their sonic substance noticeably.

What the Evolver did right was an interesting combination of analog and digital features. It was not be perfect and there are plenty of room for more features but it was a nice take on a complex modulation machine. These days we want more but the Evolver is a good starting point. In any case the eurorack world points in interesting new directions.

See, the problem is, if you would introduce something that is hybrid from the front end to the end of its signal path like the Evolver, you'd run the risk of cannibalizing the other instruments: For example, if you'd build something like a refined Evolver with the wavetables of the Prophet 12 and Pro 2, and the new VCOs that can be found in the Prophet-6.

My point is, I guess, if one likes the Evolver and how it sounds, why shouldn't one stick to it? Despite its quirks or remaining bugs it does have a unique sound that I would describe as a somehow bastardized sonic pallete from the 1980s to the early 2000s, which I mean in a totally positive sense.

On the other hand, if you wanna cover it all with the current DSI/Sequential palette, the best thing you could do is pairing a Prophet 12 with a Prophet-6. But I would never expect DSI to release a "can do it all" type of instrument that nobody could affort in the end. It's already quite cool that certain improvements of later instruments affected earlier releases, like the unison modes and the alternate tunings of the Prophet-6 that have been also implemented into the Prophet 12 right now.

What all of the current instruments still have in common though, is the classic signal path based on the subtractive synthesis model: oscillators, filter section, amp. The concept stood the test of time, it became popular because it's easy to use and most people can grasp what's going on. This has been enhanced quite successfully with the DSI-typical mod matrix and other neat ingredients (tuned feedback, distortion, character section, delays, etc.). At this moment, however, I have a hard time seeing this structure being further expanded without cannibalizing other instruments in the DSI catalog. That's basically, why I find it very hard to predict what DSI/Sequential might be up to at the coming NAMM.
Ableton Live 9 Suite & Push 2 (macOS) | Arturia BeatStep Pro | DSI Pro 2 | KMI QuNexus | Korg Volca Beats | Moog MF-104M Analog Delay | Moog Minitaur | Moog Model 15 App | Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition | Sequential Prophet-6

Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #23 on: December 28, 2015, 03:07:25 PM »
Just remember that (1) there is a huge hole in the current lineup regarding affordable modules and (2) cannibalizing is a problem for the company not the customers!

. o O ( ;) )
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #24 on: December 28, 2015, 03:11:08 PM »
Just remember that (1) there is a huge hole in the current lineup regarding affordable modules and (2) cannibalizing is a problem for the company not the customers!

. o O ( ;) )

Right, but precisely because of (2) I can't really see it happening. And yes, I agree with the "hole." One way to go about it would be testing the waters with a different approach packed into an affordable instrument.
Ableton Live 9 Suite & Push 2 (macOS) | Arturia BeatStep Pro | DSI Pro 2 | KMI QuNexus | Korg Volca Beats | Moog MF-104M Analog Delay | Moog Minitaur | Moog Model 15 App | Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition | Sequential Prophet-6

Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #25 on: December 28, 2015, 03:28:36 PM »
Right, but precisely because of (2) I can't really see it happening. And yes, I agree with the "hole." One way to go about it would be testing the waters with a different approach packed into an affordable instrument.

Worse yet the "hole" is way larger than just the new voice architecture approaches. Getting a more affordable slice of a Prophet 12 or Prophet 6 is impossible.
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #26 on: December 28, 2015, 03:35:32 PM »
Right, but precisely because of (2) I can't really see it happening. And yes, I agree with the "hole." One way to go about it would be testing the waters with a different approach packed into an affordable instrument.

Worse yet the "hole" is way larger than just the new voice architecture approaches. Getting a more affordable slice of a Prophet 12 or Prophet 6 is impossible.

Maybe, but what I meant is that they could repeat the same approach as with the Evolver Desktop. It didn't come out as a full-sized version first because Dave wanted to see how it's being received before going any further.

As for other small or midrange products: there's still Sequential's legacy with regard to sequencers and effect processors, even if it's not talked about that often.
Ableton Live 9 Suite & Push 2 (macOS) | Arturia BeatStep Pro | DSI Pro 2 | KMI QuNexus | Korg Volca Beats | Moog MF-104M Analog Delay | Moog Minitaur | Moog Model 15 App | Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition | Sequential Prophet-6

Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #27 on: December 28, 2015, 05:09:26 PM »
I'd agree that the current absence of small DSI modules is a substantial loss for us and is quite at odds with the DSI name.  They do need a few smaller products around the $300-$500 range.  There's great advantage in being able to add on in a small way to a larger set-up, in a modular sort of way.  It allows for multi-timbrality with keyboards that lack it, and it's also a way of designing a unique set-up that's tailor-designed to the individual's needs, without breaking the bank. 

Surely there's a large clientele that is wondering if the company has forgotten about their needs.  DSI was once the best thing going for such synthesists.
« Last Edit: December 28, 2015, 05:27:27 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Razmo

  • ***
  • 867
Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #28 on: December 29, 2015, 05:29:14 AM »
Well... wait for NAMM... as far as I recall, Dave said that they had something new to show... and since the OS 1.3 that some speculated was "it", has been released now, then it must be something else... it could very well be the first low-price-range synth we'll see... just have to wait and see.

Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #29 on: December 29, 2015, 05:37:51 AM »
Good point and exactly my opinion, Sacred Synthesis!

The flagship models do attract a lot of attention but not everyone can afford them. Far from actually! So it will be interesting to see if DSI continues their current line of monument building (aka jewels) or if they will make more affordable smaller voice count models with some of the sonic goodies of their flagship models and hopefully complex modulations.

One way to handle the affordable module approach is to have sort of a standard desktop module layout that will be easy to integrate with a new voice board than when starting from a blank sheet of paper.

Anyway, nothing new under the sun. Or in the studio for the matter. Gearmas are coming up and we are speculating loudly as always!

. o O ( ::) )
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 06:05:11 AM by dslsynth »
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #30 on: December 29, 2015, 10:11:11 AM »
I would love to see DSI produce modules much like the old Mopho and Tetra, but with a much better interface.  I had both, and they really pushed scrolling to the limits.  It's so handy to be able to add on small modules, but I think those two have served their time.  We need something similar but with a much better control panel.  I suppose the Prophet 12 Module sets a new standard.

Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #31 on: December 29, 2015, 10:20:23 AM »
I would love to see DSI produce modules much like the old Mopho and Tetra, but with a much better interface.  I had both, and they really pushed scrolling to the limits.  It's so handy to be able to add on small modules, but I think those two have served their time.  We need something similar but with a much better control panel.  I suppose the Prophet 12 Module sets a new standard.

Yeah, it's possible to introduce a new series of modules that are easier to handle by means of adding one or more OLED displays. The Futuresonus PARVA is a good example.

And like I've tried to express above: a module or desktop sized instrument could also serve as the perfect project for introducing something new without risking too much in entrepreneurial terms.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 10:22:57 AM by Paul Dither »
Ableton Live 9 Suite & Push 2 (macOS) | Arturia BeatStep Pro | DSI Pro 2 | KMI QuNexus | Korg Volca Beats | Moog MF-104M Analog Delay | Moog Minitaur | Moog Model 15 App | Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition | Sequential Prophet-6

Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #32 on: December 29, 2015, 10:21:38 AM »
I suppose the Prophet 12 Module sets a new standard.

I was about to mention the Prophet 12 module as I read the start of your response. The combination of the OLED display with its knob/button user interface and a few page selection buttons makes a huge difference in ease of use.

Like to add my favorite pipe dream: a voice architecture with layers and a two voice module with external inputs that can be used for triggering too as that allows such a module to be used by live drummers as well and easily allows for stereo panned sounds when needed. Keeping the voice contents versus user interface costs as high as possible is a good idea if you ask me: value for money!
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #33 on: December 29, 2015, 11:06:14 AM »
And like I've tried to express above: a module or desktop sized instrument could also serve as the perfect project for introducing something new without risking too much in entrepreneurial terms.

You did indeed express it above and I have to agree: would be a great idea if it happened in such a form.

Just like you mentioned the company needs above I like to consider one such here: when deciding on making a certain product one also decides not to spend time on making other potentially more noticeable/successful products. So I would like to see how DSI handles that priority/timing challenge.

Another thing is that when making a small voice count module cannibalization is of less concern as the people who can afford the more expensive instrument would buy that instead. However those of us with very small budgets gets a chance to get access to a sound that would otherwise not be possible.

:o . o O ( keeps on dreaming )
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #34 on: December 29, 2015, 11:21:27 AM »
DSI may surprise us with such a small and reasonably priced hardwired module this NAMM, but I also wonder if the sophistication might be reserved for their keyboard/module version instruments, while the modular modules take up the new emphasis.  I mean, for those of us who want basic components like filters, oscillators, envelopes, and so on - just the basics - a small DSI modular might be the way to go, even concern cost.  I'd say a configuration like a Pro 2 plus a small analog modular could be a superb combination, with both worlds covered quite well.  It certainly would appeal to me. 

Here's an example (not my kind of stuff, but I can see the musical potential):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hEz6b_Eo1qw

I'm waiting very excitedly to see what new instruments come from Moog, Korg/Arp, and DSI/Sequential.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 11:40:19 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #35 on: December 29, 2015, 11:36:52 AM »
Good question, Sacred Synthesis! Both Pro 2 and eurorack modules belongs in the kilodollar range whereas small desktop modules have it all in one MIDI controllable unit at a much more affordable price. Its two different things.

I have to agree with you that a Pro 2 and a well sounding analog semi-modular would be a great combo for those that can afford it. Also if you go in that direction I would suggest looking all over the eurorack world for the best sounding VCOs you can find. No need to keep it supplier specific when all units can operate together. Go for quality rather than brand!
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #36 on: December 29, 2015, 11:45:39 AM »
Yes, either that or the other option, the hardwired module.  I'm interested in both types of modules.  I'm imaging either the Pro 2 or Prophet 6 being the base instrument, supplemented by some form of module(s).  A Moog Sub (37) Module would definitely hit the spot.  So, too, would a Korg/ARP 2600.  Yikes!  Lots of sweet synthetic dreams these days, and I'm not going to wait forever.

Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #37 on: December 29, 2015, 12:00:46 PM »
Its all about choices! Technical and/or artistic. The analysis phase is actually quite interesting so be sure to enjoy it while you enjoy what you already have. In my own case there are other obvious limits to what I can get so I keep on looking for well tasting ingredients that may or may not come together to one useful module one day.

Fun thing with the MEK btw. I was very sad to see it go but nowadays I am more interested in actual contents rather than front panel looks so I am happy with my current Evolver.

. o O ( moderator skill training needed sir! )
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 12:08:54 PM by dslsynth »
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #38 on: December 29, 2015, 12:07:12 PM »
Yes, that little Evolver Desktop is a fine piece.  It's hard to imagine packing more synth power into such a small size.  The MEK was even more enjoyable to program.  Oh, don't get me singing the Evolver ballad again.
« Last Edit: December 29, 2015, 05:38:18 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: PEK and PER for Sale
« Reply #39 on: December 29, 2015, 12:16:26 PM »
Using an editor on a computer with a touch user interface a compact module could be even more powerful as one can see most of the parameters at once and furthermore enjoy computer assisted sound exploration. Editing may also be faster than on a traditional synthesizer font panel. That is the actual reason for me wanting compact modules with powerful voice architectures.
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature