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Loads of DSI synths now out of production.

Razmo

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Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« on: October 14, 2015, 03:00:09 PM »
Take a look at DSI's facebook page... practicaly all DSI's low-cost range of synths has now been discontinued according to DSI... that includes Mopho, Tetra and Evolver Desktop plus a few more synths...

I hope they're developing a new low-cost range at this very moment... and I wonder if we'll see a last OS with fixes for these gems, before the door is closed...

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #1 on: October 14, 2015, 03:09:06 PM »
Yeah, lots of discussion did already take place in this thread: http://forum.davesmithinstruments.com/index.php/topic,70.0.html

Maybe we can move some of these posts over here, where they wouldn't be off-topic.

I'm optimistic, though. It gives DSI/Sequential the opportunity to rearrange a couple of things. I'm sure that we'll see some more affordable stuff (including eurorack modules) soon. They will already know what is going to fill this gap. Let's also don't forget that the competition is a bit tougher when it somes to affordable products. There are lots of instruments from all kinds of manufacturers (Korg, Roland, Moog, Arturia, etc.) in that league by now.
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Razmo

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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #2 on: October 14, 2015, 03:18:26 PM »
Well... if you look at the specific devices in question, you'll notice one thing that they all have in common... they are monophonic... the Mopho x4 is not out of production, neither are the Prophet '08.

What does that signal? ... either Dave has found monosynths to be history with DSI, with Pro2 being the only one left, or he has new ones up his sleve to take over... I REALLY hope it's the last solution because it would be a big shame if all DSI products in the future was only expensive machines.

I really like the idear of having one-voice versions of all DSI synth lines, for those who do not have the funds to buy the expensive ones... right now, with these gone, a 1-voice version of P12 and P6 would be logical, but for some reason I don't think that is what we'll see...

Razmo

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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #3 on: October 14, 2015, 03:20:08 PM »
I also noticed today, that DSI prices has fallen here in Europe again... wonder if that's because of currency changes, or if DSI has lowered their prices...

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #4 on: October 14, 2015, 03:30:10 PM »
Well, the single voice version of the Prophet 12 is already there along with some more bells and whistles: the PRO 2.

Other than that, it'll be likely that we'll see a monophonic version of the Prophet-6 under the Sequential banner. As for desktop modules: I'm currently wondering whether it wouldn't be more economical for DSI/Sequential to develop more Eurorack modules instead of desktop modules. First of all because the Eurorack market grew significantly ever since DSI started business, secondly because even Roland and Moog are now into it. And there are still some elements of their flagship synths that would make sense as a module: The digital oscillators of the Prophet 12/PRO 2 for example and/or the new VCOs of the Prophet-6.

The prices in Europe fell after the prices were cut in the US. I think, though, that it affected more than just these instruments, so it might also have to do with the fact that the Euro is getting stronger again, dunno. But then, the prices of the Prophet '08 keyboard and desktop module, the Mopho x4, and the Prophet 12 module have been lowered as well in the US, and those won't be discontinued (yet).
Ableton Live 9 Suite & Push 2 (macOS) | Arturia BeatStep Pro | DSI Pro 2 | KMI QuNexus | Korg Volca Beats | Moog MF-104M Analog Delay | Moog Minitaur | Moog Model 15 App | Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition | Sequential Prophet-6

Razmo

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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #5 on: October 14, 2015, 03:33:27 PM »
Yes... the Pro2 is probably the one voice version of Prophet 12, but it's definitely not the "one voice" priced version... and it still has no module version. The Pro2 to me has so many bells & whistles, that I'll consider it a line of it's own really... it has a very different analog structure than P12... other filters, more of them... paraphonic touches, CV/Gate connectivity, Audio input etc... I'll not really call it a "one voice Prophet 12"  :)

If you look at the synths discontinued, it includes ONE polyphonic... Tetra... to me it looks like DSI decided to keep ONLY the flagship synth of each line, which worries me, because that suggests that DSI is done with making low-cost synths.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 03:35:07 PM by Razmo »

Razmo

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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #6 on: October 14, 2015, 03:41:54 PM »
About prices... I just wonder why MOOG gear has not fallen too if it's to do with currencies... anyway I'm happy they're comming down, because they were pretty much too expensive before...

Regarding Eurorack... I REALLY REALLY REALLY do not hope this will be the case! ... mainly becuase Eurorack has absolutely no preset storage, MIDI SysEx or anything... that would without a shadow of a doubt scare me away from DSI instruments forever if that is the case...

On the other hand... discontinuing these will probably put some bug-fixing on the shelves, because we all know that nothing will be done to fix bugs of discontinued products... the Evolver line is a perfect example of this, and some of the discontinued products have had some bugs that has been complained about for quite some time now... I bet these will never be fixed.... the only good thing about this is that then maybe DSI will find time to fix the remaining bugs of their flagships... (crossing fingers).

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #7 on: October 14, 2015, 03:52:54 PM »
Yes... the Pro2 is probably the one voice version of Prophet 12, but it's definitely not the "one voice" priced version... and it still has no module version. The Pro2 to me has so many bells & whistles, that I'll consider it a line of it's own really... it has a very different analog structure than P12... other filters, more of them... paraphonic touches, CV/Gate connectivity, Audio input etc... I'll not really call it a "one voice Prophet 12"  :)

That's true. It's not easy to put it all into a desktop module, though. Part of why the Prophet 12 and the PRO 2 are so successful is because of their interfaces. I've also read and heard lots of comments by Prophet 12 module users that said that one day they'd consider getting the keyboard version instead to give a counter-example.

If you look at the synths discontinued, it includes ONE polyphonic... Tetra... to me it looks like DSI decided to keep ONLY the flagship synth of each line, which worries me, because that suggests that DSI is done with making low-cost synths.

That's just a first step though. I think the Prophet '08 keyboard and module and the Mopho x4 will be next in line - maybe sometime next year. A lot has happened since these instruments have been introduced. There's also more competition now. When the Mopho first came out, there was no Mini- or MicroBrute, none of the Korg reissues, no Roland modular and hybrid stuff, and even no Sub 37 as a somewhat feature rich and affordable Moog. I'm not even naming all the other companies that released stuff like the Erebus and such. The whole analog market is much more diverse now.

I could see that the instruments under the banner Sequential will be more conservative and purely analog (despite additional effects) while DSI can further explore the hybrid route with new affordable and also technically challanging designs (new/different forms of synthesis).
Ableton Live 9 Suite & Push 2 (macOS) | Arturia BeatStep Pro | DSI Pro 2 | KMI QuNexus | Korg Volca Beats | Moog MF-104M Analog Delay | Moog Minitaur | Moog Model 15 App | Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition | Sequential Prophet-6

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2015, 03:54:22 PM »
On the other hand... discontinuing these will probably put some bug-fixing on the shelves, because we all know that nothing will be done to fix bugs of discontinued products... the Evolver line is a perfect example of this, and some of the discontinued products have had some bugs that has been complained about for quite some time now... I bet these will never be fixed.... the only good thing about this is that then maybe DSI will find time to fix the remaining bugs of their flagships... (crossing fingers).

That's another practical reason. Didn't DSI use a different coding from the Prophet 12 engine onwards?
Ableton Live 9 Suite & Push 2 (macOS) | Arturia BeatStep Pro | DSI Pro 2 | KMI QuNexus | Korg Volca Beats | Moog MF-104M Analog Delay | Moog Minitaur | Moog Model 15 App | Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition | Sequential Prophet-6

Razmo

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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2015, 04:46:44 PM »
Yes... I believe that Evolver was done mostly in assembly... the rest probably a more modern approach that will probably ease code reuse and C language included... The main reason for Evolver never getting those bugs fixed is because of that codebase I think... it sort of lies between the lines of what DSI wrote back when I "pushed" for fixes  ;D

chysn

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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2015, 07:25:23 PM »
Well... if you look at the specific devices in question, you'll notice one thing that they all have in common... they are monophonic... the Mopho x4 is not out of production, neither are the Prophet '08.

What does that signal? ... either Dave has found monosynths to be history with DSI, with Pro2 being the only one left, or he has new ones up his sleve to take over... I REALLY hope it's the last solution because it would be a big shame if all DSI products in the future was only expensive machines.

I hope they're not giving up on monosynths. First off, a monosynth is a classic musical instrument. It would be a shame for there to be no Sequential-branded monosynth on the heels of the P6. It would break my heart.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Moog Little Phatty w/ CV Outs, Arturia MicroBrute, KMI QuNexus
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2015, 07:34:12 PM »
I hope they're not giving up on monosynths. First off, a monosynth is a classic musical instrument. It would be a shame for there to be no Sequential-branded monosynth on the heels of the P6. It would break my heart.

I can't imagine them to give up on monosynths. There'll be something next to the PRO 2. Maybe there'll be 3-5 new Sequential-branded products next. Just all analog stuff. That would also give them some time for further OS maintenance for the more complex hybrid instruments. (Not that everything is catastrophic on that end, it would just take out some pressure and save programming resources.)

I also doubt that DSI/Sequential will become a company that will sell instruments for $1000 upwards only. They paved the way for more affordable analog and hybrid instruments since 2002 and shaped the market significantly. For a lot of young and not wealthy musicians there weren't a lot of alternatives to the Mophos and Evolvers before the analog revival started on a larger scale (let's say pre-MiniBrute). I can't see DSI leaving that market behind. The competition has grown though, and it's time for some new ideas.
« Last Edit: October 14, 2015, 08:01:44 PM by Paul Dither »
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Razmo

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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #12 on: October 15, 2015, 02:10:35 AM »
But what low-priced synths has DSI made after Evolver Desktop and Mopho ? ... none... so I'm worried about this, but we'll just have to wait and see... but since Mopho we've seen Tetra, Mopho SE, Mopho x4, Tempest, Pro2, Prophet 12 keys/module and Prophet 6... there has been no low-cost alternative of the P12 line of synths.

chysn

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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #13 on: October 15, 2015, 02:59:56 AM »
But what low-priced synths has DSI made after Evolver Desktop and Mopho ? ... none... so I'm worried about this, but we'll just have to wait and see... but since Mopho we've seen Tetra, Mopho SE, Mopho x4, Tempest, Pro2, Prophet 12 keys/module and Prophet 6... there has been no low-cost alternative of the P12 line of synths.

I don't care so much about "low-priced" instruments. I would expect a Sequential monosynth to have the classic styling and woodwork, high-quality keyboard and knobs, and to come with a premium price tag. DSI shouldn't be down in the pricepoint weeds with Arturia. I don't want them to take on the MiniBrute. I want them to take on the Sub 37.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Moog Little Phatty w/ CV Outs, Arturia MicroBrute, KMI QuNexus
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Razmo

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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #14 on: October 15, 2015, 04:10:11 AM »
In my opinion, those monosynths of other companies does not match the Mopho or desktop evolver... mainly because there are very few monosynths in that price range that has a full MIDI spec like DSI synths... The arturia ones don't have SysEx at all... I will not compare those or even feel that they are "enough" on the low price market.

There are only two other companies that deliver full MIDI specced low-cost synths, and that's MOOG and Waldorf... MOOG's are greatly under-featured in that price range compared to the DSI ones... only Waldorf really gets close to the Mopho and Evolver with their Pulse2 synthesizer.

So I'd definitely like to see new low-priced synths from DSI, because these instruments would still be unique, no matter if we have Arturia, Dreadbox, Doepfer or any other manufacturer, because these machines simply do not cover my needs for full MIDI support.

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2015, 10:16:12 AM »
In my opinion, those monosynths of other companies does not match the Mopho or desktop evolver... mainly because there are very few monosynths in that price range that has a full MIDI spec like DSI synths...

Not only with regard to MIDI support, but also feature-wise, I agree. But let's wait and see. It's not that the Mopho series and the Tetra have been introduced immediately after the Prophet '08 was announced.
Ableton Live 9 Suite & Push 2 (macOS) | Arturia BeatStep Pro | DSI Pro 2 | KMI QuNexus | Korg Volca Beats | Moog MF-104M Analog Delay | Moog Minitaur | Moog Model 15 App | Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition | Sequential Prophet-6

Ableton Live 9 Suite & Push 2 (macOS) | Arturia BeatStep Pro | DSI Pro 2 | KMI QuNexus | Korg Volca Beats | Moog MF-104M Analog Delay | Moog Minitaur | Moog Model 15 App | Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition | Sequential Prophet-6

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2015, 01:40:28 PM »
I think that may be a bit of damage control.  People were so upset by the bad news yesterday that the company had to put out some good news today, even though this "good news" is no news at all.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2015, 01:50:18 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2015, 03:49:58 PM »
Well actually the price list from Sweetwater that you posted in the other thread showed these discounts even before the retiring were announced. So there could be other explanations. Maybe we will know more at next NAMM?

And as said in the other thread and very much in agreement with what Razmo said somewhere: there went all their affordable instruments. I too sure hopes that DSI will make more affordable instruments in the future. There are significant market reach limitations to a jewel only product line.

Note to DSI: Now is the right time to join the discussion and make a few reassuring comments. We can wait till the next product announcements with the product and its details but hints of the intended direction would be good for the community spirit!
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Re: Loads of DSI synths now out of production.
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2015, 06:44:03 PM »
I was referring to the retiring of the instruments, not the reducing of the prices.  Yes, the reduction was in effect about a week ago, when it wasn't known that the instruments were about to be retired..