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Prophet 08 Main 2.6 and Voice 1.6 Beta OS

Re: Prophet 08 Main 2.6 and Voice 1.6 Beta OS
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2017, 09:34:28 AM »
Hey Everyone! I came here because I just found out about the Arp Relatch mode so I came running to update to the Beta, but so I basically have to choose between that or a working sequencer?
« Last Edit: February 13, 2017, 09:36:25 AM by edrochagoncalves »

Re: Prophet 08 Main 2.6 and Voice 1.6 Beta OS
« Reply #21 on: February 14, 2017, 08:47:39 PM »
Hey Everyone! I came here because I just found out about the Arp Relatch mode so I came running to update to the Beta, but so I basically have to choose between that or a working sequencer?
Just go for it after updating perform a test using all 4 tracks of the sequencer try to make it glitch. Make a track for pitch, a track for filter cutoff, a track for noise level, a track for resonance. If it behaves as expected then you're fine, if it starts to glitch then roll back to 2.3. I really love the arpeggio update so I'm living with the fact that I can get my sequencer to glitch because it's not my main use for my 08.

Herr Schmitz

Re: Prophet 08 Main 2.6 and Voice 1.6 Beta OS
« Reply #22 on: March 25, 2017, 04:12:42 PM »
Given the bugs that were fixed but also introduced, I think you guys should release a new OS version.

I would also love a midi command to trigger the Edit B knob in order to edit both layers at the same time.

Re: Prophet 08 Main 2.6 and Voice 1.6 Beta OS
« Reply #23 on: April 07, 2017, 02:14:05 AM »
Hallo Herr Schmitz (bei dem Alias könnten wir uns womöglich in Deutsch unterhalten?),

Your wish seems next to obsolete to me: When controlling by MIDI, You normally will be able to make Your controller send commands to layer A and B.

Martin

Herr Schmitz

Re: Prophet 08 Main 2.6 and Voice 1.6 Beta OS
« Reply #24 on: April 17, 2017, 10:55:00 AM »
Hello, no it's not obsolote. I edit my Prophet 08 exclusively with the official Editor. Suppose I want to have A+B similar but with some differences. So, most of the the time I have Edit B in "Blink Mode", so both Layers react to the editor. The advantage here is, that I only have to turn a knob once, to change both layers. If I want to edit something exclusively on one layer, I disable Edit B "Blink Mode". This is the fastest way.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2017, 10:56:52 AM by Herr Schmitz »

Re: Prophet 08 Main 2.6 and Voice 1.6 Beta OS
« Reply #25 on: April 18, 2017, 03:38:53 AM »
OK, I see Your point

Martin

Re: Prophet 08 Main 2.6 and Voice 1.6 Beta OS
« Reply #26 on: June 10, 2017, 07:13:00 AM »
Well I have update to last version firmware an use the ArpLatch = Relatch.
But I have a problem ( a big problem ):
with a sound in Split mode with
* Layer a: arrpegiator latched
* Layer b: Lead sound.
Left hand play notes to chord arpeggiator, right hand lead sound.
When I play AT THE SAME TIME LEFT AND RIGHT notes , the right sound (Lead sound) is muted (no sound is produced). So make unusable so simultanean notes on left and right hand are very frequent.
I hope you get a beta to fix this, or for me this synth will be unusable (I will therefore sell it)

Re: Prophet 08 Main 2.6 and Voice 1.6 Beta OS
« Reply #27 on: June 24, 2017, 12:58:44 PM »
Well I have update to last version firmware an use the ArpLatch = Relatch.
But I have a problem ( a big problem ):
with a sound in Split mode with
* Layer a: arrpegiator latched
* Layer b: Lead sound.
Left hand play notes to chord arpeggiator, right hand lead sound.
When I play AT THE SAME TIME LEFT AND RIGHT notes , the right sound (Lead sound) is muted (no sound is produced). So make unusable so simultanean notes on left and right hand are very frequent.
I hope you get a beta to fix this, or for me this synth will be unusable (I will therefore sell it)

I'm having the same issue. It really stinks. I love the P08, but I'm a little ticked off about having purchased one a year before they announce the REV2 and now hearing whispers about DSI no longer updating the P08. I was so happy with the beta, then discovered the muting issue. I'm also still ticked that there is no sequencer sync. It makes it nearly useless/extremely hard to do classic sequencing. I'm not the worlds best keyboard player and have neuropathy issues, so sequencer clock sync would be a godsend.

Re: Prophet 08 Main 2.6 and Voice 1.6 Beta OS
« Reply #28 on: July 04, 2017, 02:33:24 AM »
Arpeggio ReLatch is a feature of the new Rev2. It's the small but very usable implements like this that will make some Prophets 08 owners want to purchase a Rev2. Also, maybe the team has to put more work than we think on a new stable OS for Prophet 08 (doesn't seem that easy as this beta is so buggy). Prophet 08 is a synth they are not selling anymore. In the short term, there's no return in supporting its owners with this last implement. But what about the long term? In my opinion, Dave Smith is well known for making life long instruments.

To simplify my point I will use an example. Maybe it doesn't have much to do, but it's my percepction as a user: the customer support in Apple vs. Access Virus. Both make desirable, high quality products, but whereas Apple leaves some of their products outdated, Access Virus has been implementing new OS to update their old, cornerstone, mythical gear.
That work may not have an economical return in the short term, but in the long run you get a solid reputation for product and customer support.
I really hope one last stable OS is released for the Prophet 08  ;)





« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 02:39:55 AM by XJuarezz »

Re: Prophet 08 Main 2.6 and Voice 1.6 Beta OS
« Reply #29 on: July 04, 2017, 04:49:35 AM »
Maybe it doesn't have much to do, but it's my percepction as a user: the customer support in Apple vs. Access Virus. Both make desirable, high quality products, but whereas Apple leaves some of their products outdated, Access Virus has been implementing new OS to update their old, cornerstone, mythical gear.
That work may not have an economical return in the short term, but in the long run you get a solid reputation for product and customer support.

That's probably a not-so-good example, to be honest–in Apple's case, they offer support for "vintage" products (5 ≤ age ≤ 7) until they are deemed obsolete; in general, this is much longer than the industry average, using industry-standard processors: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201624, And you can continue to run Linux, say, on Apple Macintosh (Intel) hardware long into the future, if you so desire; likewise, you can build applications to run on Apple hardware, and macOS in general, long into the future, provided that you download the appropriate version of Xcode and are not bound to obsolete system calls. (In fact, you can write cross-platform code with a fair bit of reuse fairly easily.)

In Access' case, the 56K DSP platform is application-specific and uses processor-specific assembly code, and there is no physical sound-generation hardware in the analogue domain, so you (as a user) have no options other than running Access' software, on a processor platform that is no longer being expanded by the silicon manufacturer: https://synthmorph.com/blogs/news/access-virus-future-kemper-amp-virus-ti3. So it's particularly important that Access folds back as much 563XX development (as target product allows) into the existing range of products to extend their development life as long as possible until the edge of the pier, so to speak, is reached. Once that end-of-pier is reached, there will be a platform change, a new, general-purpose but incompatible codebase, and a true EOL for all development on the Virus platform.

In DSI's case (though I certainly cannot speak for them), there's no such illusion of long-tailed development; there are technologies which are shared across the (historical) DSI hardware devices, but they only serve to drive actual physical hardware, with real filter (and oscillator) circuits, using more-modern industry-standard DSPs and microcontrollers (with a little FPGA secret sauce thrown in for good measure, awright, awright, awright).

The fact that we're seeing some bits of code re-use / feature re-implementation (as Robot Heart alluded to previously) across DSI product platforms is a really good thing (and I suspect that there's much more under the hood than we realize), as it means that the development costs (time, effort, priority) for high-value features can be re-used across the range, where applicable.
« Last Edit: July 04, 2017, 05:06:51 AM by DavidDever »
Sequential / DSI / Pioneer stuff: Prophet-12 desktop, Pro-2, AS-1, Prophet-600 Gligli, Prophet 2000

Re: Prophet 08 Main 2.6 and Voice 1.6 Beta OS
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2017, 07:14:54 AM »
The fact that we're seeing some bits of code re-use / feature re-implementation [...]

If I were to design a synthesizer OS I would make it a common platform in which a specific synthesizer product uses a customization of in order to allow for easier long term maintenance. As new features are developed this platform will be extended. Things like the front panel UI will be cause be very product specific whereas voice features could be a lot easier to reuse.

And who knows maybe this is how DSI are doing things in their modern products?

One should be aware though that DSI have experience in developing synthesizers whereas I do not and that things are always more complex then one would expect. But this is how I would start out complete with taking a look at the Mutable Instruments code for inspiration. And of cause such a platform design will be challenged on the longer term by things such as changes to the digital hardware.
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

chysn

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Re: Prophet 08 Main 2.6 and Voice 1.6 Beta OS
« Reply #31 on: July 05, 2017, 04:36:44 PM »
But this is how I would start out complete with taking a look at the Mutable Instruments code for inspiration.

Except, of course, you'll actually comment your code, right? Right?
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Moog Little Phatty w/ CV Outs, Arturia MicroBrute, KMI QuNexus
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore
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Re: Prophet 08 Main 2.6 and Voice 1.6 Beta OS
« Reply #32 on: July 06, 2017, 05:53:14 AM »
Except, of course, you'll actually comment your code, right? Right?

I usually do. However there are cases in forum published code where I didn't bother doing so.

Also, code becomes a lot more readable once trying to solve the same problem as the code one reads. As for coding a synthesizer OS one of the largest challenges for me would be how to handle the evaluation of modulation routings. Specifically if effort can be made have interdependent modulations be evaluated on the current step value rather than the previous one. Then comes time keeping, good sounding envelope curves, all the pleasures of hardware control and so on.

Anyway, we drifted off topic here. While I would be happy to see updates to Prophet '08 OS its not what I would expect to see these days. Unfortunately, as it would be nice to see a final release with essential bug fixes.
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: Prophet 08 Main 2.6 and Voice 1.6 Beta OS
« Reply #33 on: July 07, 2017, 06:02:44 AM »
Moinmoin,

at least some of us seem to be able to do hardware-oriented programming.
Could it be a solution, to give them/us the code for further maintainance?

Of course they/we would have to sign some non disclosure agreement, giving their/our money, bodies, and souls to the devil (maybe represented by DSI's lawyer), if [DSI will name it]
Also a certification of results/releases (maybe even by DSI, who in turn would possibly get "new ideas"?) should be installed in order to keep DSI/P'08 reputation high.

I do understand however, that even this may not be safe enough for DSI, if other current/future products will rely on the same code or relevant parts of it:
Folding of their company due to "uncovered secrets" or "crappy firmware reputation" will be definitely worse than any consequences of freezing P'08 software ever could be.

Nevertheless, just a few thoughts of...

...Martin