The Official DSI/Sequential Forum

The Prophet '08 Among Prophets

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #300 on: December 20, 2016, 11:32:44 AM »
Listening to so many video demonstrations on YouTube and recordings on Soundcloud, I've been convinced of one thing: the best string sound comes from the Prophet '08.  Yes, it needs reverb, but it doesn't need chorus or any other effect.  I dare say, the same is true for many other types of sounds, such as brass and various pads.  This has occurred to me since the early Prophet 12 demos appeared, it was strikingly apparent in Starsky Carr's videos, and the latest from Synthetic Things makes it painfully clear.  I think one of the main reasons is the P'08's abundance of modulation.  In my opinion, it generally sounds more natural to produce modulation with LFOs than to try to compensate for a lack of modulation with an effect such as chorus.  If you feel the need to add chorus, something is wrong with your instrument.  Effects make a synthesizer sound excessively electronic and unnatural.  Some folks like this, but I definitely do not.

In spite of the instruments that have come out since the Prophet '08 was released in late 2007, I haven't heard anything that substantially surpasses what I'm able to create with my P'08 Keyboard/Module pair, or even with a single unit.  Which is only to say that each instrument has its strengths and weaknesses - of course.  But the musical excellence of the Prophet '08 has not faded one iota beside the newer DSI synthesizers.  I think it shines all the more these days.   

All I can say is that I tend to slowly orbit my studio every 3 months eventually landing back at the PO8.  I'm always impressed when I get back to this instrument with the whole feel, it's beautiful sound and capabilities.  The more I learn the other synths this one remains my favorite, actually followed by another DSI instrument (the PEK).   The price of a PO8 now is ridiculous for what you get.  For the keyboard quality alone I'm considering getting another one and putting in storage for some rainy day incase my 'ole PO8 dies ;)   
DSI Equipment: Poly Evolver Keyboard, Evolver desktop, Prophet 8,  Pro-2, OB6, P-12
 

https://Soundcloud.com/wavescape-1

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #301 on: December 20, 2016, 02:12:19 PM »
DSI has confirmed it through an email.  Both the Prophet '08 Keyboard and Module have been cancelled and the company is out of stock.

chysn

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Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #302 on: December 21, 2016, 03:55:26 AM »
DSI has confirmed it through an email.  Both the Prophet '08 Keyboard and Module have been cancelled and the company is out of stock.

Wow.
DSI: DSM03; previously: Mopho Keyboard, Desktop Mopho, Evolver, DSM01
Hardware: Eurorack, Moog Little Phatty w/ CV Outs, Arturia MicroBrute, KMI QuNexus
Software: macOS, Ableton, MuseScore
Modular Grid: https://www.modulargrid.net/e/racks/view/354385
GitHub: https://github.com/chysn

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #303 on: December 21, 2016, 06:13:21 AM »
There will be an upside to this, I'm sure–as there are plenty of used Prophet '08s out there (keyboard and module) in sufficient numbers to keep everyone satisfied, just as there are sufficient numbers of Evolvers of all shapes and sizes out there in the used market.

My only regret for the Prophet '08 platform was the omission of the dual sub-octave generators featured in the Mopho / Tetra, which really made a difference in terms of extending the voice flexibility (e.g., set Osc 1 to 8' with PWM on LFO 2, Osc 2 to 4' with PWM on LFO 3, with a bit of the sub under each)–by that account, I was much more bummed about the demise of the Tetra (which remains screamingly good value for money)–as every other DSI offering provides sub-octave functionality.
Sequential / DSI / Pioneer stuff: Prophet-12 desktop, Pro-2, AS-1, Prophet-600 Gligli, Prophet 2000

eXode

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Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #304 on: December 21, 2016, 06:28:32 AM »
My only regret for the Prophet '08 platform was the omission of the dual sub-octave generators featured in the Mopho / Tetra, which really made a difference in terms of extending the voice flexibility (e.g., set Osc 1 to 8' with PWM on LFO 2, Osc 2 to 4' with PWM on LFO 3, with a bit of the sub under each)–by that account, I was much more bummed about the demise of the Tetra (which remains screamingly good value for money)–as every other DSI offering provides sub-octave functionality.

That and the programmable feedback of the Tetra in my opinion. I think the feedback is great for adding a bit of extra bite.

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #305 on: December 21, 2016, 06:33:23 AM »
and the programmable feedback of the Tetra in my opinion. I think the feedback is great for adding a bit of extra bite.

Agreed–I still have my Mopho SE, which on reflection does some things amazingly well for the silly amount of money I paid for it used, of which I am still discovering, within a post-Tetra, monophonic context.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 06:36:09 AM by DavidDever »
Sequential / DSI / Pioneer stuff: Prophet-12 desktop, Pro-2, AS-1, Prophet-600 Gligli, Prophet 2000

dswo

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #306 on: December 21, 2016, 04:18:54 PM »
DSI has confirmed it through an email.  Both the Prophet '08 Keyboard and Module have been cancelled and the company is out of stock.

Mine's working fine, but I wonder what impact this will have on repairs.
David Wilson-Okamura
English professor

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #307 on: December 21, 2016, 04:27:30 PM »
DSI has confirmed it through an email.  Both the Prophet '08 Keyboard and Module have been cancelled and the company is out of stock.

Mine's working fine, but I wonder what impact this will have on repairs.

I assume none. When I got a Mono Evolver Keyboard 2nd hand after it was already discontinued and was experiencing an issue, DSI helped me out as if it was still in production. There are also still Prophet '08 and Evolver PE conversion kits and spare parts available. So as long as the main board remains intact, no one has to start worrying.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2016, 04:29:42 PM by Paul Dither »
Ableton Live 9 Suite & Push 2 (macOS) | Arturia BeatStep Pro | DSI Pro 2 | KMI QuNexus | Korg Volca Beats | Moog MF-104M Analog Delay | Moog Minitaur | Moog Model 15 App | Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition | Sequential Prophet-6

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #308 on: December 21, 2016, 05:07:36 PM »
Paul's assessment is correct. We still service every DSI instrument that's been made, even the long discontinued ones.
Dave Smith Instruments

dswo

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #309 on: December 22, 2016, 06:42:10 PM »
Paul's assessment is correct. We still service every DSI instrument that's been made, even the long discontinued ones.

That means a lot to me, and will factor in my next synth purchase.
David Wilson-Okamura
English professor

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #310 on: December 22, 2016, 06:57:53 PM »
Oh well, can't complain, it had a good run.  In production for almost 10 years.

Funnily enough, I was playing around with mine today for the first time in ages.
It's a far more capable synth than most people think.

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #311 on: December 23, 2016, 03:44:48 AM »
Paul's assessment is correct. We still service every DSI instrument that's been made, even the long discontinued ones.

Nice to know, thanks! Could the "still service" indicate that that would not continue on the longer term? What could make DSI stop servicing old instrument one day? Any official policy on this?
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #312 on: December 23, 2016, 04:09:21 AM »
Paul's assessment is correct. We still service every DSI instrument that's been made, even the long discontinued ones.

Nice to know, thanks! Could the "still service" indicate that that would not continue on the longer term? What could make DSI stop servicing old instrument one day? Any official policy on this?

I assume that depends on the availability of spare parts. The PolyEvolver PE conversion kit is out of stock for example, which probably means there's no way to perform that conversion anymore via DSI.

But there's also a difference between the spare parts in stock, which can be purchased individually (knobs, wood panels, conversion kits) and the instruments' main boards. Parts for those are probably only available as long as the according instruments are still in production. However, repairs might still be possible if those parts can also be found in not yet discontinued products. And then there are those repair cases, in which a part maybe doesn't have to be swapped at all - if there's only a loosened component for example.
Ableton Live 9 Suite & Push 2 (macOS) | Arturia BeatStep Pro | DSI Pro 2 | KMI QuNexus | Korg Volca Beats | Moog MF-104M Analog Delay | Moog Minitaur | Moog Model 15 App | Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition | Sequential Prophet-6

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #313 on: December 23, 2016, 04:55:57 AM »
I do get the common sense and to a large extend agree with it. However, what I am fishing for is an official long term hardware maintenance policy from DSI.

ProTip for DSI: The best such policy is "as long as the parts are available". ;)
#!/bin/sh
cp -f $0 $HOME/.signature

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #314 on: December 23, 2016, 05:27:06 AM »
I do get the common sense and to a large extend agree with it. However, what I am fishing for is an official long term hardware maintenance policy from DSI.

ProTip for DSI: The best such policy is "as long as the parts are available". ;)

But that is already indicated by the continued service. Based on my experience, DSI is willing to service any instrument they've produced in the most uncomplicated and affordable way, no matter whether you're the first, second, or third owner, or whether the instrument has been discontinued or not. Only in the most extreme cases, where a board that is not produced anymore is completely shot for example, they couldn't do much anymore, as long as a partial exchange of still available components or resoldering won't help. That makes the likelihood of an according "panic case" pretty slim. So I don't really see any reason for concern.
Ableton Live 9 Suite & Push 2 (macOS) | Arturia BeatStep Pro | DSI Pro 2 | KMI QuNexus | Korg Volca Beats | Moog MF-104M Analog Delay | Moog Minitaur | Moog Model 15 App | Moog Sub 37 Tribute Edition | Sequential Prophet-6

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #315 on: December 23, 2016, 04:37:53 PM »
You know us well, Paul Dither  ;)
Listen to this man, as he understands how our company operates.

PEK PE conversion kits are on the way, we ran out but we're building more. They should be available sometime in January.
Dave Smith Instruments

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #316 on: January 01, 2017, 11:46:22 AM »
I'm going to follow up on an old topic, making the Prophet '08 DCOs to sound like VCOs. I have what I think is a pretty good method that is subtle and doesn't consume a lot of LFOs.

LFO3
Frequency: 130
Shape: Rev Sawtooth
Destination: Osc 1 Freq
Amount: 1

LFO4
Frequency: 136
Shape: Triangle
Destination: Osc 2 Freq
Amount: 1

No modulation.

I used two equally mixed sawtooth waves for OSC1 and OSC2. Slop = 0-2.

This sounds pretty good to me. I can't hear obvious artifacts of the modulation. But I'd be interested to hear from others. Sorry no time to make a sample.

Right now my opinion is DCOs can do a decent job recreating the fullness of VCOs with lower cost and better tuning stability.

dswo

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #317 on: January 01, 2017, 06:39:29 PM »
I'm going to follow up on an old topic, making the Prophet '08 DCOs to sound like VCOs. I have what I think is a pretty good method that is subtle and doesn't consume a lot of LFOs.

Thanks for this report, tumble2k.
David Wilson-Okamura
English professor

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #318 on: January 04, 2017, 05:21:33 AM »
tumble2k , that was really helpful - took me down the path to what i think is my best patch in a while.. so thanks!

Something that is relatively new to me is using the repeat function of the ENV 3 to have cyclic modulation with different shapes to an LFO that are possible to further modulate. Can get very expressive and interesting rhythms with it!

Re: The Prophet '08 Among Prophets
« Reply #319 on: January 04, 2017, 02:02:59 PM »
tumble2k , that was really helpful - took me down the path to what i think is my best patch in a while.. so thanks!

Something that is relatively new to me is using the repeat function of the ENV 3 to have cyclic modulation with different shapes to an LFO that are possible to further modulate. Can get very expressive and interesting rhythms with it!

I think I spoke too soon. Part of the reason the modulation sounds good is that the reverse sawtooth LFO adds a frequency offset to one of the oscillators while the triangle does not. This causes some detuning that can be neutralized by modifying the oscillator frequencies.

Earlier in this thread I found that the DCO resolution was around 0.07Hz at 147 Hz. If you scale that to 440Hz you get 0.21Hz. In a Prophet 12 forum thread, jdt9517 found that a VCO on the Korg ARP Odyssey had a variation of +/- 0.1 Hz at 440 Hz. (I should redo my resolution measurement at 440 Hz). In other words, the minimum jump in frequency is twice as large as the total variation on an actual VCO. That's very not promising for creating an exact replica of VCO behavior.

Nevertheless I'm still working on some other modulation methods and will update as I discover more.