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Different audio behavior if MIDI is sent or received

Different audio behavior if MIDI is sent or received
« on: September 23, 2017, 06:27:56 AM »
Hi guys,

I had the chance to get a DSI Pro Rev 2 a week ago and I'm really enjoying it.
However, there is something i could not solve so far and that made me desperate for the last couple of nights:

The synth is connected in USB to my laptop running Live Ableton through a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20. The L & R audio outs of the Rev go into the analog in of the Focusrite.

When the midi input in Live is not configured yet to receive midi from the Rev, the sound I get from the Rev seems "normal", with normal control of ADSR.
As soon as I configure the right midi input in Live, the same program in the Rev does not behave the same way when I play it with the Rev keyboard: I don't have anymore sustain, the cutoff is lower.

I am still able to record my midi sequence though, but what I monitor is very much different. However, when I playback my midi sequence from Live sent to the Rev, the program sounds as it was originally, with the right ADSR, cutoff...

I did the same in Protools and I got the same results.
I thought I was not sending the right midi info in a way or the other, so I tried to edit all the midi parameters from the Rev and Protools but could not find the solution :(

Do you guys have any ideas of what I'm doing wrong?
Thanks very much for your help and your time !

Re: Different audio behavior if MIDI is sent or received
« Reply #1 on: September 23, 2017, 09:29:33 AM »
Hi guys,

I had the chance to get a DSI Pro Rev 2 a week ago and I'm really enjoying it.
However, there is something i could not solve so far and that made me desperate for the last couple of nights:

The synth is connected in USB to my laptop running Live Ableton through a Focusrite Scarlett 18i20. The L & R audio outs of the Rev go into the analog in of the Focusrite.

When the midi input in Live is not configured yet to receive midi from the Rev, the sound I get from the Rev seems "normal", with normal control of ADSR.
As soon as I configure the right midi input in Live, the same program in the Rev does not behave the same way when I play it with the Rev keyboard: I don't have anymore sustain, the cutoff is lower.

I am still able to record my midi sequence though, but what I monitor is very much different. However, when I playback my midi sequence from Live sent to the Rev, the program sounds as it was originally, with the right ADSR, cutoff...

I did the same in Protools and I got the same results.
I thought I was not sending the right midi info in a way or the other, so I tried to edit all the midi parameters from the Rev and Protools but could not find the solution :(

Do you guys have any ideas of what I'm doing wrong?
Thanks very much for your help and your time !

It sounds as if you've got a MIDI loop (which might be a really good FAQ for this subforum, to be honest). If you set the Rev2 to make use of NRPNs (rather than CCs), perhaps that would help?
Sequential / DSI / Pioneer stuff: Prophet-12 desktop, Pro-2, AS-1, Prophet-600 Gligli, Prophet 2000

Re: Different audio behavior if MIDI is sent or received
« Reply #2 on: September 23, 2017, 12:12:23 PM »
Do you guys have any ideas of what I'm doing wrong?
Thanks very much for your help and your time !

Im sort of getting the same thing in Logic. Only when I create a basic patch though. The sound goes from a rich sound to a thin plucky sound once midi is activated by arming the track.

Also, once a basic patch is created I can no longer use my midi controller unless the track is armed in logic, if it isn't I can only use the Prophet.

I can use both the midi controller and the Re2 keyboard on all the other patches on the synth.








Really annoying.

Re: Different audio behavior if MIDI is sent or received
« Reply #3 on: September 24, 2017, 12:35:33 AM »
Sounds like you need to turn off the local setting on the rev2 and set it too midi cc, I had a similar issue to what you're describing.
Synth Arsenal - Access Virus TI Polar, Moog Sub37, Novation Ultranova, DSI Prophet REV2, Roland TR8, Ableton Push 2

Re: Different audio behavior if MIDI is sent or received
« Reply #4 on: September 24, 2017, 02:30:59 AM »
@OP - I posted this in your other thread (change pro2 to rev2!):

These sort of issues are nearly always caused by midi loops, where the midi from the synth goes into the DAW and then the DAW sends the midi back to the synth.

This is particularly easy to get wrong in Live. If you have the midi tack set to have the input and output to the Pro 2 then you have a midi loop, if you want to work like this you need to set "Local Off" on the Pro2 or what I do is to have two midi tracks for synths, one set with the input midi off and one with the output midi off. Record to the track that has the midi in on and midi out off, then drag the clip to the track with the midi in off and the midi out on for playing.

Re: Different audio behavior if MIDI is sent or received
« Reply #5 on: September 24, 2017, 08:28:19 AM »
Yes, you're right guys, it seems that this is a limitation due to the MIDI loop of my configuration.
I didn't know that MIDI loops could be a problem.
The workaround of BobTheDog is actually perfect as it allows me to record and playback MIDI and having my patch unchanged!
Thank you all for your feedback and for getting back so quickly!

dsetto

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Re: Different audio behavior if MIDI is sent or received
« Reply #6 on: September 25, 2017, 09:21:13 PM »
BobTheDog,

I like your workflow, there.

Re: Different audio behavior if MIDI is sent or received
« Reply #7 on: October 12, 2017, 06:19:40 PM »
In Cubase you can fix the REV 2 midi loop-back issue by switching off "Midi Through"  in Cubase /Preferences.

Re: Different audio behavior if MIDI is sent or received
« Reply #8 on: October 12, 2017, 08:05:03 PM »
I simply can't believe how many of these threads I've seen lately and over the last couple of years. Synth makers really should have quick setup tutorials for all the common DAWs that cover the local on/off settings as well as the DAW's midi through functions.
Original Model D <> Sub 37 <> Minitaur <> Slim Phatty <> OB-6 Module <> Prophet Rev2 8Voice <> Integra 7 <> JD-XI <> Triton Le <> Boss Dr. Rhythm DR-55 <> Sound Gizmo

"They're not aliens...they're Americans!"
(The Mouse That Roared, 1959)

Re: Different audio behavior if MIDI is sent or received
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2017, 03:22:18 AM »
This I'm in the same situation with Logic Pro X and my Rev2...and seems every time a random quest.

  • Prophet connected via USB, receiving only on Midi CH 1
  • Logic set to external device and sending only to CH 1

I tried all possible combinations: MIDI Clock Cable, MIDI Param Send/Receive, Multi Mode, Local Control

Still sometimes I record myself playing, Logic records the notes properly but on playing back nothing happen.
Other times I just try to play the Prophet and seems some notes are just not emitting any sound... disconnect USB and it all works fine.

Having another analog synth via USB and don't get this problem.
Any tip?