The Official DSI/Sequential Forum

Will we see a new Evolver?

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #80 on: February 12, 2018, 01:56:47 PM »
It has a unique PPG-Wavestation-VS old school digital character that's not easily replaced.

I would be sad if DSI makes an updated exact copy of the Evolver with digital highpass filter and delays in mono.

Rather keep the elements that make it sound so unique such as the way the digital waveshapes are rendered as analog signals, the combination of analog/digital oscillators complete with sequencer, tuned feedback and delays. Better synthesizer ingredients exists these days for filters and analog oscillators so why not head in that direction? And maybe consider using more than one rendering of digital oscillators?

That is of cause not going to happen. But the strength that makes the Evolver so hard to beat is exactly the digital diversity on a solid analog foundation.

Just take the concept of the Evolver and expand on it. More polyphony, more effects, etc.

Honestly, at this point if DSI do another analog Polyphonic or mono synth, it would have to be something absolutely mind blowing if it were to peak my interest. Poor Dave, he wanted to make digital synths, people demanded analog, he made five Polyphonic analog synths, now people want digital synths..must be frustrating for him.
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Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #81 on: February 12, 2018, 02:14:09 PM »
Honestly, at this point if DSI do another analog Polyphonic or mono synth, it would have to be something absolutely mind blowing if it were to peak my interest. Poor Dave, he wanted to make digital synths, people demanded analog, he made five Polyphonic analog synths, now people want digital synths..must be frustrating for him.

Well, I am sure that an analog poly with rev2 style modulation/layers, prophet-6 style oscillators/filters and possibly a few extra analog features would be a hit. People would love it! Also, the Evolver is a hybrid analog/digital machine. Its not a digital machine and therein lies its strength.

Agree that the polysynth market seems a bit more challenging these days which gives less freedom for companies like DSI. But lets see what happens next. Crossing fingers for a more adventurous and interesting machine this time around.
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Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #82 on: February 12, 2018, 02:52:30 PM »
I don't think anybody has to worry that DSI will ever produce a strict re-issue of the Poly Evolver.  No one has asked for it, nor have I, even though I'd be happy with one.  Look at the Rev2 in comparison with the Prophet '08.  That's what we're talking about - a new and improved Evolver.  But please, no four-octave keyboards!
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 02:55:24 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #83 on: February 12, 2018, 02:54:24 PM »
The more I look around and consider my next new synthesizer, the more I appreciate that the Poly Evolver Keyboard is an exceptionally unique instrument and that probably nothing currently in production could substitute for it.  It has a unique PPG-Wavestation-VS old school digital character that's not easily replaced.  In one moment I'm thinking of selling a PEK to finance another synthesizer, and in the next I'm recoiling in horror at the thought and considering instead expanding my eight-voice PEK with another PER!  Yes, a twelve-voice PEK would be wonderful, especially for wide-ranging arpeggios.

This is not meant to be particularly fastidious but the Wavestation doesn't quite share the charme of the PPG, VS, Microwave, or Evolver. It's much closer to the typical Korg ROMpler sound of the early 1990s and lacks the interaction with anything analog. Sonically, it's pretty much stuck in time if one doesn't work massively against it.

All the rest sounds like you're more and more gravitating towards the Evolver again.
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Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #84 on: February 12, 2018, 03:00:06 PM »
An evolved Evolver sounds like a plan. This time around it may be better to have as much analog signal path as their current machines have. In other words no A/D + DSP + D/A step after the VCA except for the digital effects.
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Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #85 on: February 12, 2018, 03:00:48 PM »
I can't help it, Paul; my ears place the PPG, Wavestation, VS, and Evolver in the same category.  I realize this is not technologically correct, but I speak purely as a musician.  Those four instruments could serve me equally well in the same ways.

And yes, you're right.  I've become infatuated again with the Poly Evolver Keyboard.  Nothing against the P'08/Rev2.  I'm just constantly struck by the quality and flexibility of sound.  There's absolutely nothing like a PEK...except, of course, a PPG, Wavestation, or VS.  ;D
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 03:04:04 PM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #86 on: February 12, 2018, 03:02:41 PM »
Poor Dave, he wanted to make digital synths, people demanded analog, he made five Polyphonic analog synths, now people want digital synths..must be frustrating for him.

That's historically not quite correct. Whenever Dave designed hardware instruments, the analog element was important to him. With the exception of the Korg Wavestation and the Reality softsynth, he was never involved in designing a purely digital synth.
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Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #87 on: February 12, 2018, 03:15:52 PM »
I can't help it; my ears place the PPG, Wavestation, VS, and Evolver in the same category.  I realize this is not technologically correct, but I speak purely as a musician.  Those four instruments could serve me equally well in the same ways.

Yes, you're right, Paul.  I've become infatuated again with the Poly Evolver Keyboard.  Nothing against the P'08/Rev2.  I'm just constantly struck by the quality of sound.  There's absolutely nothing like a PEK...except, of course, a PPG, Wavestation, or VS.  ;D

I can assure you that if you're used to the interaction with synths the DSI way, you wouldn't particularly enjoy programming the Wavestation. On top of that, it takes a lot of programming and menu diving to push it away from typical ROMpler-ish PCM-based sounds, which by now sound just as particularly dated as a Solina String Ensemble (just for a different decade). It is a good synth for pads, though, that's true. But I doubt it would give you anything in terms of sonic vividness you can't already achieve with the Evolver. I owned both and the only thing the Wavestation is better at is the so-called Vector Synthesis that the Evolver can't do at all. With regard to pure sound, however, the Evolver is far superior and more flexible on a much easier level.
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Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #88 on: February 12, 2018, 03:36:02 PM »
Well, I am sure that an analog poly with rev2 style modulation/layers, prophet-6 style oscillators/filters and possibly a few extra analog features would be a hit. People would love it! Also, the Evolver is a hybrid analog/digital machine. Its not a digital machine and therein lies its strength.

Agreed on the strength of hybrids.

I immensely doubt, though, there's a place for the kind of analog poly you've suggested—at least not really below the price of two Prophet-6s. After all, there's the 16-voice Rev2 already and everyone is free to put together a Prophet-12 (2x6), an OB-12, or a Prophet-6/OB-6 hybrid these days. To take from these options for another iteration of an analog poly synth would only equal a massive cannibalization of all products that have been released since 2015. But as of now, the Rev2 is the highly competitive and most flexible analog poly synth around. It would make little sense to design a Rev3 with 16 VCOs and discreet filter circuits for twice the price.
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Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #89 on: February 12, 2018, 04:19:13 PM »
The only other thing I can see them doing in the analog realm is multitimbrality but that likely won’t happen.
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Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #90 on: February 12, 2018, 04:19:30 PM »
I immensely doubt, though, there's a place for the kind of analog poly you've suggested—at least not really below the price of two Prophet-6s.

My point is simply to state a design I would like to see and then let the company decide what it should cost if they one day decides to design such a machine.
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Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #91 on: February 12, 2018, 04:20:47 PM »
Poor Dave, he wanted to make digital synths, people demanded analog, he made five Polyphonic analog synths, now people want digital synths..must be frustrating for him.

That's historically not quite correct. Whenever Dave designed hardware instruments, the analog element was important to him. With the exception of the Korg Wavestation and the Reality softsynth, he was never involved in designing a purely digital synth.

I mean analog oscillators not VCF or VCA. Prophet VS, Prophet 2000, Prophet 12. All digital oscilators.
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Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #92 on: February 12, 2018, 04:23:36 PM »
The only other thing I can see them doing in the analog realm is multitimbrality but that likely won’t happen.

Multi-timbrality makes me wonder how complex the MIDI side of it really is to implement and what other implications for the firmware it will have. I can see a voice allocation and configuration challenge. But anything besides that?
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Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #93 on: February 12, 2018, 05:10:03 PM »
The only other thing I can see them doing in the analog realm is multitimbrality but that likely won’t happen.

Multi-timbrality makes me wonder how complex the MIDI side of it really is to implement and what other implications for the firmware it will have. I can see a voice allocation and configuration challenge. But anything besides that?

The risk of too much menu diving.
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Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #94 on: February 12, 2018, 07:59:22 PM »
All the rest sounds like you're more and more gravitating towards the Evolver again.

I think the Korg Prologue renewed my appreciation for the quality sound of the Poly Evolver.

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #95 on: February 13, 2018, 02:19:01 AM »
All the rest sounds like you're more and more gravitating towards the Evolver again.

I think the Korg Prologue renewed my appreciation for the quality sound of the Poly Evolver.

Hehe. Not to forget the appreciation for more than just one LFO.
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Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #96 on: February 13, 2018, 03:18:42 AM »
Poor Dave, he wanted to make digital synths, people demanded analog, he made five Polyphonic analog synths, now people want digital synths..must be frustrating for him.

That's historically not quite correct. Whenever Dave designed hardware instruments, the analog element was important to him. With the exception of the Korg Wavestation and the Reality softsynth, he was never involved in designing a purely digital synth.

I mean analog oscillators not VCF or VCA. Prophet VS, Prophet 2000, Prophet 12. All digital oscilators.

Gotcha. Well, just as with most analog elements, the digital side most people are craving for is the one that contains flaws, which are now being regarded as highly desirable artifacts. That includes 8-12 bit resolution and aliasing. It's these flaws, and the interaction between a sometimes extremely harsh sounding digital front end* and soothing analog components that make the sound of particularly the PPG and the VS precious for many.

* Just as an illustration: This is what the digital front end of the PPG Wave 2.X's predecessor sounds like. The PPG 360 Wave Computer from 1978 is as pure of an impression as you can get, since it didn't feature an analog filter, i.e. no filter at all.

https://youtu.be/hyMR8DSLHSc?t=3m22s
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Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #97 on: February 13, 2018, 06:11:41 AM »
Well, just as with most analog elements, the digital side most people are craving for is the one that contains flaws, which are now being regarded as highly desirable artifacts. That includes 8-12 bit resolution and aliasing. It's these flaws, and the interaction between a sometimes extremely harsh sounding digital front end* and soothing analog components that make the sound of particularly the PPG and the VS precious for many.

Yes, indeed.  You can put me in that category of persons.  But I'd add the qualifier that the flaws, artifacts, aliasing, and other seemingly caustic elements from the digital side can be tamed in individual cases, often by closing the filter or even avoiding a certain register on the keyboard.  And at other times, you can open up the sonic door to let in just a sparkle of those elements - only as much as enhances the music.  They're often quite controllable and don't result in that most unfortunate situation in which the synthesizer dictates to the synthesist.  No, the caustic digital elements can be managed quite well. 

We're talking about the tasteful and delicate use of nuances here, and it brings to the fore the beauty of serious synthesis.
« Last Edit: February 13, 2018, 06:37:29 AM by Sacred Synthesis »

Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #98 on: February 13, 2018, 08:33:49 AM »
Poor Dave, he wanted to make digital synths, people demanded analog, he made five Polyphonic analog synths, now people want digital synths..must be frustrating for him.

That's historically not quite correct. Whenever Dave designed hardware instruments, the analog element was important to him. With the exception of the Korg Wavestation and the Reality softsynth, he was never involved in designing a purely digital synth.

I mean analog oscillators not VCF or VCA. Prophet VS, Prophet 2000, Prophet 12. All digital oscilators.

Gotcha. Well, just as with most analog elements, the digital side most people are craving for is the one that contains flaws, which are now being regarded as highly desirable artifacts. That includes 8-12 bit resolution and aliasing. It's these flaws, and the interaction between a sometimes extremely harsh sounding digital front end* and soothing analog components that make the sound of particularly the PPG and the VS precious for many.

* Just as an illustration: This is what the digital front end of the PPG Wave 2.X's predecessor sounds like. The PPG 360 Wave Computer from 1978 is as pure of an impression as you can get, since it didn't feature an analog filter, i.e. no filter at all.

https://youtu.be/hyMR8DSLHSc?t=3m22s

All we need is an aliasing dial just like with have the slop dial. To control how much digital artifacts and aliasing we want.
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Re: Will we see a new Evolver?
« Reply #99 on: February 14, 2018, 08:58:53 AM »
It's these flaws, and the interaction between a sometimes extremely harsh sounding digital front end* and soothing analog components that make the sound of particularly the PPG and the VS precious for many.

Taming The Digital Monster (TM)
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