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Struggling with external sequencing

Struggling with external sequencing
« on: July 17, 2017, 08:57:09 AM »
Hi all,

I've had my Tempest for about 6 months now and I've never really been able to wrap my head around the external sequencing option. Only on a couple of occasions have I gotten it to work, and I can't even remember what strange combinations of options needed to be set.

This past week I wanted to add a simple pad from my A6 to the beat I was working on. I followed the motions as described in the Tips n Tricks thread to a T. The results was being able to play the A6 using the Tempest pads, but any recorded sequences would not trigger the synth. The pads do not light up during play mode, so it appears that it's not even trying! I had this issue before and was able to resolve it somehow, but I am at a loss for exactly what I did.

At this point I have all 6 outputs connected to my mixer, which is a new thing to my setup, so I don't know if that is possibly screwing the situation at all. Not currently aware if my external MIDI sequence is going to steal a "voice" or something. If anyone has advice or some steps to try I would be very thankful!

RobH

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Re: Struggling with external sequencing
« Reply #1 on: July 17, 2017, 09:06:36 AM »
Hi all,

I've had my Tempest for about 6 months now and I've never really been able to wrap my head around the external sequencing option. Only on a couple of occasions have I gotten it to work, and I can't even remember what strange combinations of options needed to be set.

This past week I wanted to add a simple pad from my A6 to the beat I was working on. I followed the motions as described in the Tips n Tricks thread to a T. The results was being able to play the A6 using the Tempest pads, but any recorded sequences would not trigger the synth. The pads do not light up during play mode, so it appears that it's not even trying! I had this issue before and was able to resolve it somehow, but I am at a loss for exactly what I did.

At this point I have all 6 outputs connected to my mixer, which is a new thing to my setup, so I don't know if that is possibly screwing the situation at all. Not currently aware if my external MIDI sequence is going to steal a "voice" or something. If anyone has advice or some steps to try I would be very thankful!


You haqve to assign which pad is sending the external midi sequence and also set which midi channel its sending it out on by pressing the system button and going right a few menus in the "Midi Polyphonic play" menu you can assign the synth out pad and channel.

Voices won't be stolen as this is limitation on the analog side of the Tempest, in fact the midi side of things is much more limited only letting you use one pad on one midi channel sequencing from the events page and then a general midi out that sends the pad triggers out on a seperate midi channel.


Re: Struggling with external sequencing
« Reply #2 on: July 17, 2017, 10:33:23 AM »

You haqve to assign which pad is sending the external midi sequence and also set which midi channel its sending it out on by pressing the system button and going right a few menus in the "Midi Polyphonic play" menu you can assign the synth out pad and channel.
As mentioned in the original post, I followed the instructions as described in the tips and tricks thread, which means I did exactly this. To reiterate, I can play the external instrument by striking the pads, but the sequences do not play the external instrument, which goes to show the communication is there, but something quirky inside the Tempest is not sending a recorded note sequence to the same destination (when using the same pad)

Re: Struggling with external sequencing
« Reply #3 on: July 17, 2017, 10:53:42 AM »

Voices won't be stolen as this is limitation on the analog side of the Tempest

It appears this would be wrong... in a way. I was able to get it working by assigning the pad a specific voice. Unfortunately, now that pad's sequence fights against any other pads I have set to that particular voice, meaning I get drop outs of notes both internally and on the external instrument.

Suffice to say, that's a bloody letdown.

RobH

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Re: Struggling with external sequencing
« Reply #4 on: July 17, 2017, 11:06:07 AM »

Voices won't be stolen as this is limitation on the analog side of the Tempest

It appears this would be wrong... in a way. I was able to get it working by assigning the pad a specific voice. Unfortunately, now that pad's sequence fights against any other pads I have set to that particular voice, meaning I get drop outs of notes both internally and on the external instrument.

Suffice to say, that's a bloody letdown.

The event sequencer can only record a maximum or 6 (or maybe 8 i forget) notes in any one posistion. So if you've recorded a straight hi hat on 16ths that will take up one of the event row sequencer spaces, if you made 8 of these tracks you would not be able to input any more notes on other track on a 16th note.

You don't need to assign a voice in order to get the sequencer to output the midi notes to the daw I am in front of my Tempest sending sequenced midi notes to the DAW with no voice assigned.

Re: Struggling with external sequencing
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2017, 11:13:54 AM »
The event sequencer can only record a maximum or 6 (or maybe 8 i forget) notes in any one posistion. So if you've recorded a straight hi hat on 16ths that will take up one of the event row sequencer spaces, if you made 8 of these tracks you would not be able to input any more notes on other track on a 16th note.

You don't need to assign a voice in order to get the sequencer to output the midi notes to the daw I am in front of my Tempest sending sequenced midi notes to the DAW with no voice assigned.
Are you using all 6 outputs? I am.

RobH

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Re: Struggling with external sequencing
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2017, 11:22:04 AM »
The event sequencer can only record a maximum or 6 (or maybe 8 i forget) notes in any one posistion. So if you've recorded a straight hi hat on 16ths that will take up one of the event row sequencer spaces, if you made 8 of these tracks you would not be able to input any more notes on other track on a 16th note.

You don't need to assign a voice in order to get the sequencer to output the midi notes to the daw I am in front of my Tempest sending sequenced midi notes to the DAW with no voice assigned.
Are you using all 6 outputs? I am.

In that case, if your using all 6 outputs, all voices are removed from the main mix  (L+R). This means any pads not allocated a voice can bounce around to different voice outs as the voice allocation changes which voice is playing that pad.

I might be misunderstanding exactly what is going on or what your trying to achieve so maybe Yorgos can chime in and help out.

Even if i assign all 6 voices out the sequence is still going to my DAW. Are you sure you have set the Synth Out Pad to the correct pad? This would explain why when you press the keys it works but the sequence is not being sent i think.

Its setting "MIDI: Sequencer Sound" assign that to the pad with the sequence on. If you've done this already I'm not sure why your still having trouble.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 11:26:39 AM by RobH »

Re: Struggling with external sequencing
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2017, 12:27:27 PM »
Ok I figured this out, and maybe it should have been a bit more obvious. The Tempest is not just only 6 Voices, it only has 6 notes of total polyphony for sequencing. When you assign your Sounds to specific Voices, and use the individual outs, each channel "owns" one of those notes of total polyphony and you effectively have 6 monophonic sequencers, one per voice out. In my case today, I was using all 6 channels in the Beat already. 1, 2, 3, 4 are kicks, snare, hats, percussion, some atmospheres on 5, and basses on 6. Because all 6 voices were actively being used in the Beat, there was no polyphony left to assign another sequence to without stealing notes.

The work around is to share the external sequencer pad's voice channel with Sounds that you won't use at the same time. In my case I could have assigned it to channel 5, muted my atmospheric patches, and have the pad sequence going after that.

Still a bit of a letdown, but now I understand why it's happening. Mysteries are more frustrating than things I can explain, so I'll live with it, and carry on. And look for a cheap Digitakt for external sequencing.
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 12:28:58 PM by particlesintowaves »

RobH

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Re: Struggling with external sequencing
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2017, 02:01:44 PM »
Ok I figured this out, and maybe it should have been a bit more obvious. The Tempest is not just only 6 Voices, it only has 6 notes of total polyphony for sequencing. When you assign your Sounds to specific Voices, and use the individual outs, each channel "owns" one of those notes of total polyphony and you effectively have 6 monophonic sequencers, one per voice out. In my case today, I was using all 6 channels in the Beat already. 1, 2, 3, 4 are kicks, snare, hats, percussion, some atmospheres on 5, and basses on 6. Because all 6 voices were actively being used in the Beat, there was no polyphony left to assign another sequence to without stealing notes.

The work around is to share the external sequencer pad's voice channel with Sounds that you won't use at the same time. In my case I could have assigned it to channel 5, muted my atmospheric patches, and have the pad sequence going after that.

Still a bit of a letdown, but now I understand why it's happening. Mysteries are more frustrating than things I can explain, so I'll live with it, and carry on. And look for a cheap Digitakt for external sequencing.

Yeah it can be a little hard to understand exactly how it works until you've basically used up the voices and allocated them out and seeing the effect it has (losing notes, voices being stolen, voices not playing etc) but once your up to speed with the Tempests design and work within its limitations you realise actually how capable it is and what you need to do to eek out that extra bit when needed through careful sequencing and voice management.

You can only externally sequence one channel and the 6 note limitation is a sequencer not really a voice limitation because even though there are only 6 voices they are dynamically assigned making it like there are more although yes if your already using 6 tracks in the event sequencer programming a seventh for external isn't an option.

Also yes for the Tempest to act as a true polysynth the pad/sound you want to play can't be assigned a voice as it uses more than one, specifically one for each key pressed, assigning a voice will just play the last note triggered, and as we know poly sequencing isn't viable on the Tempest unless you use seperate pads for seperate keys.

I'm unsure as to how a Digikat works and/or if it can sequence polyphonically or not. There is always other options that don't cost a fortune that you could maybe look at for sequencing if thats what you need, a Arturia Beatstep pro has 2 64step polyphonic sequencer tracks and another64 step  8 track gate/drum trigger sequencer, it also has the ability to do some arpegiation and rolls some other cool stuff along with full CV+Midi outs, for 200uk its a lot cheaper than a digikat and i'm pretty sure will have a load of other stuff the Elektron can't do, i guess it depends on whether you need the sampling/sounds the digikat has or not.

I'm glad you've solved your problem even if it wasn't the perfect solution.

Re: Struggling with external sequencing
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2017, 02:14:51 PM »
I just watched the new Sonic State video on the Digitakt and I can say for sure that I'm getting one. It will be an excellent complement to the Tempest, as well as all of my other gear thanks to its incredible sequencer.

Re: Struggling with external sequencing
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2017, 02:20:06 PM »
I guess it was silly of me to expect that the external MIDI sequencer could have it's own phony in the game ;)

RobH

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Re: Struggling with external sequencing
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2017, 02:43:17 PM »
I guess it was silly of me to expect that the external MIDI sequencer could have it's own phony in the game ;)

Inb4 "Godfather of Midi"